"Rhaenyra’s Triumphant" HOTD S3 | EP3

For the 89th episode of the podcast, we tackle the third installment of season 3 of HOTD. We track Rhaenyra’s “triumph” as her first day of rule turns into a relentless test of money, legitimacy, and control inside a decaying Red Keep. We also dig into the episode’s sharpest symbols and smartest performances, from the rats to Ramin Djawadi’s score to the politics that keep boxing her in.

Transcript

Cold Open Knighting

SPEAKER_02 0:01

In the name of the warrior, I charge you to be brave. In the name of the father, I charge you to be just. In the name of the mother, I charge you to defend the innocent. Sir. Of Sir Hugh, Sir Adam. Knights in your Queen's service. Will you swear fealty to your ruler and her cause to be servants and agents of the crown for all of your days? I swear it, your grace. As do I. Until death.

Welcome Back And Tony’s Travel Plans

SPEAKER_00 0:59

Hello and welcome to Dancing with Dragons, your go-to podcast for everything Game of Thrones, House of the Dragon, and the world of Georgia R. Martin's The Song of Ice and Fire. My name is Minua, and I'm here as always with my co-host Tony, and today we're continuing our coverage of House of the Dragon season 3. Today we're covering episode 3, Rainera Triumphant, which picks up shortly after the Powerhouse, that was episode 2. In episode 3, we see Rhineira adjusting to power and finding out that the situation in King's Landing is not what she anticipated. Unable to locate her enemies, and with demands coming from all sides, Rhaenyra must navigate a delicate balance between appeasing her supporters and consolidating her rule. Like episode 2, this episode was directed by Claire Killner and written by Sarah Hess. It's an interesting episode. I think me and Tony both realize that we have more to talk about than we initially thought we would. But um, before we get into that, first let me pass the mic to Tony and ask him, how are you today, Tony?

SPEAKER_03 1:52

I'm doing well, thank you for asking. I'm, you know, we're recording earlier than usual, and I thank you for that since I'm leaving on a trip or later today. Actually, let me just mention that probably won't be recording a new episode next week because I'll be out of the country. Family reunion in Puerto Rico. I'm very excited. Haven't been back to the island since the year 2000. Oh wow. Yeah, it's been a long time. Um, in my youth, I spent every summer there and I have a lot of family there. So it's gonna be nice to take my kids and show them where my parents were born and raised. And it's gonna be a special trip and trying to get all the stuff ready. It's you know how it is. You you're a lady of travel, you know how that goes. So it's it's a big trip like this. It's like we I have to be ready. Um I am gonna try, I'm gonna take my podcasting stuff and a mic and laptop and and see if we can record um after episode four airs on Sunday. And if it's strong enough, maybe we can get that done. But if not, our review of episode four probably will not come out until episode five airs. Might have to do one of those two episodes in one. Uh have we done we've done that in the past, it's nothing new uh for us. But other than that, um, I'm excited for that, obviously. Can't wait to go. I'm feeling good. I I thought this episode, like I was watching this episode, and by the end, I was exhausted.

SPEAKER_00 3:35

I I understand. I felt uh tense all throughout, I think. And to I think with episode two, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 3:42

Yeah, no, no, yeah, you're you're right, because we we've like I mentioned uh before we recorded that there were so many scenes in the first two episodes, like pretty much every character that this is the closest we've ever gotten to a POV chapter episode in any Game of Thrones. So just following Ranera through the red keep um was nice because we didn't have to. Oh, this is gonna be an easy episode to record. This is gonna be just about Renera and you know her first day at the job. Uh, but actually, we do no, it's not all red keep. We do get that cold open in the beginning with uh Damon and Ormond Hightower. We can all agree that that was supposed to be the season premiere

Winning the throne is easy, governing Is Harder

SPEAKER_03 4:25

or cold open. It just feels like that because usually the cold opens are are reserved for for season premieres. I fell for Renera in this episode. Let's just get into it. Uh, the poor woman cannot sit down, literally, and we'll get into we'll get to that. Oh my god, yeah uh to enjoy that what's supposed to be the happiest moment of her life. Uh becoming the first queen of the seven kingdoms and trying to rule in a way to make her father proud. Obviously, we know that completely different circumstances of how she got to the throne, her so much loss, grief. But at least, okay, I I I can not look past that, but go, at least there was the journey is complete. Now I can relax. And before she can even relax, all the demands are coming in. Like we have to do this, we have to do that, and it's the reality of having to keep up this red keep.

SPEAKER_00 5:22

Yeah. Uh like I watching this episode brings to mind the Hamilton quote, you know, like winning is easy, governing is harder. Because um, we mentioned in the last episode that it's kind of felt, I think, a bit too easy. I don't know if I had that conversation with you or if I had it in real life with a friend where their takeover of King's Landing just seemed too easy, and they wish that they saw like a more of a strike uh struggle in a fight. Um no, we we talked about that last episode. Yeah, we did, we did. And um, like when I as I said that, I was like, oh wait, it was Tony. Um so I think that that's you know, that quotes kind of resonates here because it's just one thing on top of another and another and another, and uh you know, like my girl can't catch a break, you know, she just became became queen, she has no real small council. Everyone wants something from her. She can't sleep, you know. She's in her like her old living quarters, her father's old room. Um, she's they're broke. Uh her best friend is her prisoner, she doesn't know what to do with that. Um, she's fighting Loki a little bit with her husband, and it's like he's getting kind of on her nerves, and he isn't really understanding which is going on. She's giving her dead sons, and she's going through her cycle, and her home is infested by rats. It's just one thing on top of another, on top of another, on top of another, and she's dealing with like the the guilt and the weight of having just killed someone and excusing someone herself, which isn't easy at all. So it's a lot. She's going through a lot in this episode, and I just really felt for her because um uh you can feel her feeling overwhelmed, that makes sense.

SPEAKER_03 6:49

Like you feel like you're feeling overwhelmed alongside her, so and and I think I think we felt that as well because I think we all can sense and hear Raman Jawaddy's score because I think it's so amazing in this episode. Yeah the use of music, it just heightens the drama. Yeah, the score like it mirrors Renera's fragile state, uh reinforcing how uncertain her grip, even sanity in becoming the queen. Uh just uh it's very creative, um, and adds the emotional weight to every scene. I mean, even the clock ticking or chiming gives you that feeling of uh, you know, and you're anxious. Like this this woman has just become queen, and like you she hears the ticking of the clock, like, okay, I can't waste any time. I every second I have, I have to make sure that I'm doing something. I I can't like you know, it in her mind, she was supposed to come in to power, have this lavish party. I want to have tournaments, I want to have this, I want to have that, and then she's brought back to the reality of by the way, um, can't have that because you have no money. And yeah, Missaria is telling her, How would that look if you're having this festival and what to and then everybody is starving in your city that doesn't live in Bodwell? But it felt like she she uh at the beginning she felt annoyed by that, like she needs to be anointed queen, she must be shown properly that you know she wants her coronation, like like that's that's that's so important. Obviously, throughout the episode, it becomes less important, but I just I think it was um on purpose to show that you know she had to be grounded into reality of you know what, maybe you need to calm down. First, we have to find the goal to do this back to the music, the violins, you know, screeching, and then that's the drama. You see her dead son, also through the castle, the piano following her through the night. It's so there's so much we could say about him, Raman Jawadi. So I'm just just just happy that that music makes it so much better because you know, without music, you know, it's a wonderful marriage, you know, TV, movie, and music.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:23

Uh somebody said, uh watch Star Wars without the score. It's not the same.

SPEAKER_00 9:30

Yeah, no. It's like something that you don't realize the power of until it's gone. It plays like a horror film, I think. This episode, Loki, because as the like one thing pops up, as like a new thing pops up, a new stressful scene or matter that she has to deal with, you just feel you get more and more stressed. So it just feels like I don't know, it feels like a horror film to me. That's how it played out to me with the music. So very well done.

SPEAKER_03 9:56

With Ranera, this whole episode, I felt like she you know, it's her POV, and we see her struggling between the kind

Alicent’s Advice And Viserys’ Bubble

SPEAKER_03 10:05

of ruler she wants to be in the Kyler and the kind of ruler she has to become, right? Even with Alison telling her, this is how it works. You're gonna have to make choices. That how does she say so your heart will recoil? I can't say it so fancy like Alison, but you know what I mean. Um, she's giving her the the harsh truth, and she also spends a lot of time like comparing herself to her father. And uh, we're gonna be all we're gonna be all over the place here with our review. I just wanted to get to that great quote Allison said because Ranero is talking about I want her her father remained himself. You know, Allison tells Ranera, your father lived in the world of his own construction. Meaning we saw that throughout the season one of House of the Dragon, where he created his own version of reality.

SPEAKER_00 11:00

Yeah. He was in his own bubble, he wasn't just connected to reality.

SPEAKER_03 11:05

Yeah, exactly. Like every time he was brought a serious situation he had to deal with, he'd go, enough of that. Now we have to talk about my son's party and my this, and like he he didn't want to have to deal with reality, he wanted to his have his family always reunite uh united as one. Like he didn't think about oh, why are these kids not blonde? Why are they brown hair? How how does that work?

SPEAKER_00 11:32

He didn't want to face reality or even question it, you know. Like he when you bring up the hair thing, he didn't even want to acknowledge it because acknowledging it means acknowledging a real world issue, and he wanted to stay in his fantasy bubble. So that was, I think, just that. And um uh it's it's it's so true what Renier and Allison said, as women, they almost can't, you know, they're and they're such key players in this world that they can't afford to escape reality for even a second.

SPEAKER_03 12:03

He was like, he was literally the king of of facing of avoiding uncomfortable truths, like like no no no, I don't have to deal with that, you deal with it. I'm I'm conflicted because I I love Olivia Cook and I love her scenes with Emma Darcy, and I think they're so great together. I wish they could do like a buddy cop movie in the future together. But scenes like this I like because it's something that Ranera needs to hear because Ranera in in in right now, she doesn't have that much uh guidance or counsel. She doesn't have that. The only person she has is Masaria and Damon, but she doesn't have a true counsel. I I see why she's seeking Alicent.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

I completely agree. She um also has reason to trust Alicent, you know, because Alicent helped her like take the throne, you know. She um has a basis for for why she's going to Alicent, even though Alicent is kind of she was in a weird place to me in this episode because I felt like she was helping Renier, but also like partially regretting it because she's not happy that Renera's keeping her prisoner and everything. Um so Alison to me just came up came off a bit weird in this episode, but yes, understandable why Renier would go to her. I I saw people confused about that, and we were confused about it as well. I remember we talked about oh, how are we going to see Renero and Alison move forward or are we gonna see Alison turn against her? And we didn't get that. We didn't get Alison being completely upset at her that she killed Otto, if that makes sense. Like she was upset, but she wasn't like uh distraught and super angry about it, and she's still kind of like, Yeah, I claimed the throne, Agon, just say my son is dead. It was a bit it came off a bit weird to me. I need to rewatch the episode. I only got the chance to watch it once, but I I don't see anything wrong with Ranira going to her for for advice. Yeah, her only counsel is Masari and Damon, and they're against each other, they're both like it's tense between Renera and both of them. Yeah, even though she trusts them both. It just feels like Alison's, I guess, is currently the um I don't say the most sane option that seemed that seems like to her, but like the a person that she can immediately just go to. So sorry, yeah, that's what I want to say. What about you?

SPEAKER_03 14:19

Going back to her counsel, she has Masaria who is probably her envoy to the small folk, she knows the small folk, and that's her expertise. Damon is not really the true counsel because all he wants to do is take all the dragons and conquer everybody who you know that's not true, counsel. So she doesn't have somebody there who can guide her, like um who would I say her Paramorph's father, who is the strong, the hand of the king or Viserys. Yeah, what's his first name? I would forget. Anyway, that strong hand, no pun intended or pun intended. Lionel strong. Lionel strong. She doesn't have a Lionel strong to give her, like, hey, this is what we need to do. He could have

Rats As Politics And Paranoia

SPEAKER_03 15:05

been sending ravens out or do it a diplomatic way. She has guys telling Damon, oh, by the way, the rats are everywhere, they're eating the candles, and they eat all the candles. We how come we can light the castle? Like little things like that that make it such so important, and then just like the rats in the whole episode. Like, what once I saw the rats, this is gonna be a big metaphor for the whole episode. Like, this is just yeah, the rats were used as it's to underscore the greatest threat that that to the realm that isn't rats themselves, it's the people who whose actions have created the conditions in which they flourish. So if you think about why there are rats everywhere, obviously there are no rat catchers, Aegon killed them all. Why did Aegon kill them all? Because if you go back, Damon hired Blood and Cheese to kill Aemon. They happen to kill his the heir to the throne. Aegon gets upset, he kills all the rat catchers. Now Renera comes into power, no rat catchers, rats everywhere. Just it's uh it's uh a domino effect here. Um, but also it's just to prove that little things like that, even though it's like one little rat going through her legs, it's just something that she has to think about. Um that she wouldn't have to think about if everything was fine and dandy.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

Yeah. Yeah, it's it's I like how it's being used for the like it's because it's it's funny because it's a bit like modern slang as well. When you call someone a rat, it's like someone that um you don't trust or you can't trust, and they would like they're lucky to betray you. And um, you know, I like that the keep is like infested with it actually, like the actual rat, but also the people that they can't trust. Um, and that's the first thing that Damon uh calls off, like, oh, the rats have gotten especially large when when he brings them to the throne room. So I do like that, and then you know, the scene within around the rat, like not to jump ahead, but later on when she feeds them rats, that's obviously symbolic as well, because she says something like um to the lords, to like the rich people of King's Landing, she's like, Um, you're you you you swore allegiance a bit too late, so therefore you won't be rats, and she serves them rats, so I do like that.

SPEAKER_03 17:22

No, then one guy I forgot the lord that was sitting there, he goes, I was behind you all the way, and she's like, Yeah, a little too late though. Like the way she just said it, it was so funny. When you go back to season one and two, rats are shown throughout the the show. It's not like you know, I mean, like in season one, you see rats everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

Yeah, uh, they were present before as well, and I like that I think you said this, but um like it represents the decay of the decay of the Targaryen dynasty, I guess, starting here.

SPEAKER_03 17:56

I like how you say dynasty.

SPEAKER_00 17:59

Yeah, I suppose with dynasty.

SPEAKER_03 18:01

No, no, no. I'm just messing with you. I like I just I like the way it's said. No, this episode also um after the two action packed, it was nice to have an episode slow down, just kind of focus on that one character. I did see a report, which I hope is not true. There's gonna be an episode of mostly just following Aegon.

SPEAKER_00 18:25

And I go, Yeah, I have I have seen that.

SPEAKER_03 18:28

I go, why? We don't need to follow him. Yeah, um, yeah. So I mean, like I said, like we said many times, and you're probably tired of hearing us saying, like, if this was a true TV show, like 10, 12, 15 episodes, okay, give us an Aegon episode. That's fine. When you only have eight, and you have you know this many to deal with so many important events and and battles, it's it's gonna be disappointing. But anyway, there's a lot to talk about, but I I want to make sure we hit the the highlights here.

Dragonseed Knighting Scene Steals Spotlight

SPEAKER_03 19:03

Um let's talk about the knighting of the dragon seeds and how I thought it was one is one of the funniest scenes of the show. We always compliment and and praise Emma Darcy. Amazing, amazing, amazing. But Matt Smith, his body language, the way he looks at these he looks at at Of Hugh and Adam as just like you are so inferior to me. You don't belong, you don't even why am I doing this? The way he unsheaths his sword is so aggressive, and you do that when you are gonna duel somebody or you're gonna fight somebody. You know, we don't it's not as honorable or a beautiful moment as Brienne being knighted by Jamie. It's supposed to be a great moment for that person, and here's just like uh the name of the mother and the name of the person is like the annoyance of his face is what makes the the scene so so so funny.

SPEAKER_00 20:15

Oh yeah, I think that um like I I didn't even write any notes on that scene, except that Matt Smith was accidents in that scene. Um, and he he just breathed right through it, which I thought was was nice.

SPEAKER_03 20:26

Yeah, it isn't there's no sincerity, no like, oh I'm proud of you here. This is this is a great moment. This is like I guess you have dragons and you gotta help us, so I guess I'm gonna have to do this.

SPEAKER_00 20:38

Yeah, and in that uh knighting scene, Rhenira calls Adam Adam of Hull, and at that point, I'm pretty sure she had already had that scene with um the two brothers, Adam and Alan of Hull, with Corliss, and that's where Corless officially asks um Rhenira for like permission or to like legitimize them, to give them the Valeria name, because even though that's what he wishes, to formally do that and like kind of legally in the world of Westerns, they would need the the um rulers like permission and and and um for them to like grant them kind of legitimacy.

SPEAKER_03 21:13

And Rheni doesn't say anything at the beginning, calls him Han when she knights him, and then actually I'm sorry, yeah. Before we continue, I need to mention uh oaf when he says uh Targaryen, and she goes, absolutely not like are you effing kidding me? And the one when he finishes knighting them, he goes, Is that it? And they're like, bro, he's so uh yeah, it's it's it's hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 21:46

He doesn't have like the grace and and poise of a knight, and that he's gonna get a castle. Don't forget that. Yeah.

Corlys Pushes For Legitimizing Sons

SPEAKER_00 21:52

So yeah, there's the scene where Accordus asks for Renier to legitimize them, she doesn't really give an answer. You know, later on in the episode we have that very kind of annoying scene where he confronts her in front of everybody, and it's really irritated me. And I know a lot of people felt that as well. Um, because he just disrespected her in front of everyone. And I understand that maybe he's frustrated, and I understand, I guess, where he's coming from, where he says, like, why can't my illegitimate sons um, you know, get something, whereas your illegitimate sons are like we we're fighting for them to be on the throne. I understand that, but at the same time, first and foremost, he has a granddaughter, Bela, that's been ignored. Why do why don't you make her the heir? Why? And I wish that the writers included that because it's not really part of the books in any way, in any capacity, but at least kind of mention that because didn't she turn him down? Oh, did she in season two?

SPEAKER_03 22:44

I don't remember if she turns him down. But you're right. I mean, she he she's he still has Raina, and Raina as well.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

I mean, I'm just uh the reason why why didn't he say Raina is bit just because she's not in the picture for them right now, so um I think that just would have been a very interesting conversation for them to have for everyone for us uh viewers to um see that kind of conversation flow because um you know the whole thing is Rainier um vouching for women to to like for herself as a woman to um inherit, even though that's not what she does in the books, interesting enough. Yeah, it was a kind of an annoying scene because he spoke to her the same way that his own brother spoke to her in season one and Damon killed him for that. And it was you know such an iconic scene that we all look back on fondly, but here's the now it's yeah, I don't know. It's just annoying.

SPEAKER_03 23:30

I mean, he was right, she was right, he was wrong, she was wrong. You know what I mean? Like it's so one of like he's right, like he just lost everything. He's he gave up everything to fight for her and her cause. And yes, you can have Raina or Bela as your heir, but then she doesn't marry a Valarian another Valerian. Oh, yeah, I guess I guess he cannot produce heirs, and then um sorry, I mean she's also right in saying I just this is my first day, dude.

SPEAKER_00 24:06

Yeah, yeah, that's what I was gonna say.

SPEAKER_03 24:07

Yeah, she didn't say no, she just said, just give me just give me some time, and I can't be creating it's just not a you know, legitimizing bastards isn't just a simple act of like kindness, it's like it has political consequences as well. Like she already has an army of bastards, she has three bastards, dragon riders. All the rumors that were true of her for the last 20 years of uh letting her bastard children roam around the Red Keep. Yeah, um, and now you know she can't be in a hurry to legitimize these two. And they I'm and like I say, she could have just said, okay, you know, you've given up so much for me, let me just do this really quick. But then again, it's just like I can't even sit down and take a breath. Yeah, please. Um, just let me think about it. Let but also let me think about it is code for nah, I'm not gonna do it. So maybe he's just getting upset and him saying that, he could have said all that to her in in a private room, but there's all these people in the background listening to him. The reason why she doesn't probably she just could have had uh who's the guy at her Queen's Garden now? Well, he's the the the guy who's the the city watch commander, but he now he's following her, Lawrence or Largent or something like that. Yeah, yeah. He could have just said, you know, chop his head off or whatever. But I think in her mind, like she's completely shocked at what she heard. She had it's not the first time, but also like, do I kill this guy who helped me so much? Like, obviously, we're gonna see the aftermath in the next episode. I wish we could have seen it in this one, but it's Renera being cautious. Is it overly cautious? You know, she's always been that way. That's her that's her thing. She she's cautious, she wants to be like her, she doesn't want to be perceived and making the wrong decisions and and stuff like that. So, like I said, it was a very frustrating scene, but when you look back at it, like I could see why you're upset, but then I could see other people saying, Well, it takes two to tango.

SPEAKER_00 26:26

I I it just annoyed me because I I I understand his point, but it just annoyed me that it was that disrespectful. And I think that like I I agree with what you said, which is what Renera said, which is that it can't be the first thing that she does as queen on her first day is legitimize illegitimate children because considering the rumors around her, it annoys me that Corless acted that way because you ignored them your whole life, and then now just overnight you want to be like, no, but they deserve everything, and I'm and and and you're so angry and passionate about them that you ignored them their whole lives.

SPEAKER_03 26:58

Like it's just a now that they they fought for you, they literally saved your life the few couple times. Now you are their their father. Yeah, uh, I the one thing I will say, not not to um be against Renera, but she benefited her whole life with people overlooking that lineage, you know, not overlooking it, but like not saying it to her face, or her father protecting her all those years with obviously not Valerian kids roaming around the castle. But then again, this is a different circumstance that she could probably overlook and go, look, you know what? You have given everything, like I said. Um, your sons helped me get this seat, and especially in the book, like the Valerians are there to help take King's Landing. Like they're a big part of it, they're a big part of the the Battle of the Gullet, you know. Corless, without Corless's fleet, let's say Corless was Team Green. I mean, that would be so hard, right? But anyway, yeah, that that's one of the this is one of the scenes that is gonna be uh talked about for a long time, analyzed, yeah, you know, on YouTube, TikTok, everything.

SPEAKER_00 28:11

And what annoys me is that, you know, this is again like her first, if not second day, on the job being queen. And you have not just one, but two men

High Septon Refuses To Crown Her

SPEAKER_00 28:20

disrespecting her to her face. She has a brief um and another annoying scene with uh a High Septon, the same High Septon that's crowned or like anointed um Aegon. And it's a very tense scene because he refuses to crown her. And uh since he crowned Aegon and he says that the reason that he doesn't want to crown her is because he has no proof of Aegon's death. And it just really annoyed me because to me it just felt like a scene that where he's just like a misogynistic guy that wants to use his like um his power and influence over because the thing is he she's coming to him and asking him kindly. I just want you, I want you to anoint me, and nice to meet you, blah blah blah. And she doesn't even say anything like I'm gonna kill you for I'm I'm gonna like force you to do it. You know, she doesn't threaten him in any way for anointing Aegon, she just says, like, I need you to anoint me um and kind of recognize me as the ruler now because I'm obviously sitting on the throne and XYZ and Aegon's dead, because they are assuming that obviously that's Aegon's dead. Um, but he just keeps blabbing on about like uh no, it's dragons and uh I and there's no proof and whatever. He didn't, it's most likely he doesn't want to he doesn't want to crown her because he like doesn't really accept her because of the rumors that her kids are illegitimate and he sees that as like blasphemous because you know she she had kids outside of wedlock, but so did Aegon. He had no problem crowning Aegon, and I don't think that Aegon kindly went up to him and said, Can you crown me?

SPEAKER_03 29:48

And he doesn't recognize that he also has no issue with incest. Yeah, and the the seven, the faith of the seven really hate that. So let's put that aside, but and we will anoint Aegon.

SPEAKER_00 30:03

Yeah, like Ronera is was named the rightful heir. Her brother her husband, or her ex-husband, I guess, Lena, is not um her brother. It's not, you know, he's like a distant relative, it's not what they consider to be, you know, like a band or something. So it just really annoyed me because he was obviously just like Ms. Nusiken didn't like her, and I think he was a team greens loyalist, and he like he would excuse her, turn a blind eye towards um a man's um sins, but not a woman's, even though she's more legitimate, she was named the heir. Like to me, that just felt I don't know, like it feels more.

SPEAKER_03 30:42

I think his role needs to be more of uh compassion and guidance, and this was like, I'm gonna enforce my judgment upon you.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

Yeah, and not just my judgment, but also like my power influence, because he said, Don't make an enemy of the faith, like I have a lot of power, because we know that you know that it's uh that they do have that power, the high septons we've seen it in the Game of Thrones as well, but but did escalate in the Game of Thrones where they were more like a culty situation. Um, but he did he does know that they have some power and influence and use uses that against Renier, kind of trying to warn her like if you make an enemy out of me and you say something against me, um, you're the one that's gonna lose. But I mean, literally what she could do is just kill him.

SPEAKER_03 31:22

Yeah, and this is this is uh uh another slight change. Uh he in the in Fire and Blood is in Old Town, so he never he's not in King's Landing, and they have to figure out another way. Uh, but yeah, it's one of those like it reminded me, it took me back to season five and six of Game of Thrones with the high sparrow. Like, oh I can't, I I'm just like I don't want another another scene like this. And and he's just lucky that Damon wasn't there because he would have just forced him to do it. He would have said kneel and just do it, or are you gonna get your head chopped off?

SPEAKER_00 31:58

Yeah, which is probably I mean, think like thinking about it, when he crowned Aegon, um, it's either that he wanted to or he was threatened to, and both um like both things are not good things because if he wanted to, that means that he was like going against his king's orders, which is to crown Renera, he was you know committing treason, maybe a sin as well. Um, or he was threatened with, but like didn't have a problem with it at the end of the day. So it's it's interesting. We'll see if that plays a role in the episodes moving forward. We also have to remember that um the high towers and team greens and Alison, they kind of used the faith to legitimize their claims. So I guess they have like a strong relationship. Do you remember when Addison wore that gigantic chain? So I guess he like they have like maybe um during Otto's time they built that strong connection between like the Greens and the Faith, but it's just it's messed up.

SPEAKER_03 32:50

The one thing that gives me hope is that when he says all this excuse my French shit to her, she chuckles, she chuckles and she goes, You have made your position exceedingly clear. And then she walks away. And that was very uh taking the high road. And I can see the next episode him being forced to do it. She's like, Okay, you know what? I'll let you say what you gotta say here. I'm gonna leave, but in her head, I'll be back.

SPEAKER_00 33:19

We'll see. We'll see.

SPEAKER_03 33:21

I like I don't like I said, this is a change from the book, so we're we're making I'm making a prediction. She'll get anointed by him one way or another. Or next next man up, who's the next one in charge after you? Come on, yeah, we need to get this done.

SPEAKER_00 33:35

So I briefly touched on this before, um, like previously in this recording, but we get the scene also. It's a very interesting scene because I like how when she was asked previously, um, what would your father do? She was like, he would host the banquets, and that's so true. But her father would have done that and just like focus on the food and the decorations, everyone

Banquet Punishment And Feeding Lords Rats

SPEAKER_00 33:55

happy, is everyone dancing, is the music good, but he wouldn't have actually um focused on the conversations and what he could get out of it. And at least Renera can see that obviously she can't stay in his bubble. And I don't know, I just I yeah, I liked how that rang through when she's using that in a different way, um, to kind of be ruthless and take some action, I guess, which which was very nice and very well done. Uh very um made for TV as well, which I really like, just has that shock moment with all the rats. Um, and you know, it is different than in the book. In the book, she doesn't do this kind of like Robin Hood act where she steals from the rich to give to the poor. She imposes taxes on everybody, which wouldn't have translated well on screen. I was wondering, like, they're just gonna make Reneira make taxes. Like, that doesn't sound fun. I wonder how how they're gonna do it, how people will react to it. But um, this is I guess a better way of of uh kind of doing that, doing the next step for Ranira instead of just taxes, because that just does it's a boring plot line. Taxes, you know, no one wants to see that in a fantasy world.

SPEAKER_03 34:56

So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:57

Um it's getting like it's fine if you read about it, like in the way it says in Fire and Blood, but on TV, this is I guess cooler to see. It's a nice nicer thing to see. And at the same time, you can see the hole in it, the same way you can see a hole in the taxes plot line, because Damon pointed out himself. He said, This solution is going to be very divisive. You're going to um make like the poor happy. But as we've seen, the people of King's Landing are very flippy-floppy. They, you know, are never happy basically. So, um though they're celebrating in this episode, they might turn on her in any second, and it's it can satisfy them for like two weeks. I think he says something like that, make them happy for two weeks and they'll forget about it. It's a temporary fix it. So um we'll see how that plans out. Um, I hope everything

Lord Manderly Calls Out The Blockade

SPEAKER_00 35:40

goes well for Renera. Um, I hope like it's it's fine. After feeding them the rats, and she's kind of leaving the banquet hall, she meets Sir Torn Manderly, a new character for us, just in case you're wondering if we've seen him before or not. Um, he's played by Dan Fogler, who you might recognize from Fantastic Beasts and where to find them. Um, and Sir Torn Manderly is a character from the books that um we don't get introduced to him early on, but when Jace goes up to Winterfell to um get the Stark Army like the Winter Wolves, he also goes to White Harbor to meet House Manderly and get their allegiance as well, and he does get that. Um, so they are loyal to Team Blacks, and he's there and he I like how he kind of suddenly calls Renira out because and maybe we'll see him becoming like the character that we see Renera needs in her small council. I don't know. We'll see. I don't know what the show's gonna do, but um, we mentioned that you know she has no uh Lionel Strong by her hand. Maybe we'll see him being a Lionel Strong. We don't know what the show's gonna do. So we'll see. We'll see. Um, but it's an interesting scene to watch.

SPEAKER_03 36:38

No, she says, Oh, my knights will be there to go to your house, and he goes, Well, yeah, that's fine, even though, and it's a good idea you're doing this, even though it was your blockade that caused all this.

SPEAKER_01 36:49

Like, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:52

Uh, I have a um couple questions here from Kaden underscore Crippen, and I I sent him a message actually earlier apologizing that he sent us a message last week, which I talked about to you

Listener question on Daemon's conquest plan

SPEAKER_03 37:05

to you prior to the recording, and then I forgot to mention it in the recording. So, anyway, he sent us a couple things right now. And the first one is Is Damon right? Question mark with six dragons, who can stop them from conquering the world? And I think we touched upon this, uh, which I thought it was a funny thing to say, seeing the fact that his ancestors, Aegon the Conqueror, Visenia, Rainice, with the three of the most powerful dragons ever to exist, Vagar being one of them was Visenia, a young Vagar with all her strength and power. They could, and he because he wanted to say we could just conquer Dorne. Dorne is right there, we could just go right now, and uh we know the history of Dorne and how hard it like it was never been properly conquered by the Targaryens. He's thinking big picture, and she's like, We need to figure out how to feed people, and he goes, It's so annoying to him, and it's like something that he doesn't want to have to deal with. Like, he wants to go, like we could just go out there and get the gold. Like, why do we need to do all these little, you know, it's irritating to him that she wants to be this this queen, like yeah, you know what I'm saying?

SPEAKER_00 38:19

Yeah, yeah, I know. Damon has that like hunger where he wants to rule the world and and be unstoppable, but the world doesn't work that way, you know. If he okay, they got King's Landing, if they just take all their dragons and go to Dorm, go to wherever. At some point, this empire, this uh colonizer empire, like the like this colonization is gonna collapse, you know what I'm saying? Because it's just not that simple. Um, there they're already like holes in what they have now. It's not it's not a serious thing, it's just a fantasy that he has. Um, this is Damon's Bubba. We mentioned how Viserys had a bubble, and this is Damon's Bubble, where he's just like, I'm gonna rule the world.

SPEAKER_03 38:58

He also mentions uh the Free Cities, Esos, and Yi, which is another reference to Yi. Uh, never mentioned in Game of Thrones. And I think this is like the second or third time we've heard it in House of the Dragon. And Yi, the way to describe it is like old Imperial China. That's that's

Daemon’s standoff and the fake Daeron

SPEAKER_03 39:20

the way people describe it. But you know, let's go to Damon. We kind of skipped over the cold open, and we have him and Lord Orman High Tower. And I if you look at uh um Ormond's armor like really closely, it's really, really, really nice. But there, you know, he's basically telling him he has to kneel. Your uh nephew is gone. I kind of killed your uncle. So let's let's go. Um, and then and they put the camera pans out, and you see Of and then you see um Hugh. And at first, when I saw the screenshot before the episode, I thought that was Sheep Stealer in the back because of the wing. I go, did is this Raina right here? Did he figure out to meet up with Raina? Anyway, uh the whole scene was kind of um well, it was literally a standoff, but Orman realizes hey, you know, I'm just gonna have to surrender here. He kneels, he says what he has to say, and then Matt Smith in his glorious acting, he goes, Kneel now, and uh you could turn around and live your life in peace, I guess. Like he he really just wanted to scorch everybody and just kill them all right there. But Renera's like, no, this is what you have to do, offer them this. These are the terms. Uh but then he goes, but wait, one more thing before I go.

SPEAKER_00 40:47

One more thing, we need Daron. And you know, we knew that this was coming. Um, and obviously Orman knew as well. And I just feel like I don't know if this was executed in the best way, and also I have to say to our listeners, sorry if we spoiled this for you in episode one, because we saw the guy behind Ormin and we said that that's Daron. Um we assumed, we assumed, and he looks exactly like Alison's. And um people were fooled, they did they did think that this kid that we saw in this episode was um was uh Alison's actual son. So like the twists were when Darnero was shocked. Um, people were shocked as well. I found out that um they believed it. So if we spoiled it for you, I'm sorry. Um to us it felt a bit obvious, but and and we didn't know that they were gonna do this, obviously. So we just tried to do our job and and um explain what was going on on the screen for you. So yeah, um, we get that little kid, poor kid, random guy taking taken to King's Landing with bleached hair, and um it doesn't say a single word because you know he's been threatened by Ormond. And Darren's obviously back with the with the high tower camp. And it it's it's I understand that, and I guess why they do that. I think correct me if I'm wrong, but in Fire and Blood, something like this with a fake Darren plot happens later on in the story, not now. Um, so I get it. Maybe that's like an homage to that, and they kind of want to show that the team greens aren't like backing down and that they wouldn't just obviously give him up. It just feels like there's a bit of a hole or like a uh something that hasn't been answered, and maybe we're gonna see it in episode two because when they whisk this not Daron kid away, you see Tessarion kind of just look to the camera and being like, okay, like okay, okay, whatever. That's not Darren, but okay, what are you doing? And it it wasn't a red flag for Damon that Tessarion wasn't angry that her her dragon rider was just being taken away. Like I know Dragon would be okay with that. Damon was like, okay, I guess this is what if if but maybe that's not the case. Maybe Tessarin went with them, we just don't see it. And would they let how would they get Tessarian to get to King's Landing without a Dragon Rider that's actually there in the tent? So it's just very confusing for me. I feel like it's a bit of a plot hole. And Damon like if Tessarian stayed there, Damon was fine with the high towers just having a a uh a dragon, like it just feels unanswered, and I hope we get an answer to the water. The one thing is like a plot hole.

SPEAKER_03 43:13

I think the leaving of the dragon was kind of it was answered at the end with the dragon keeper because they left it there for the dragon keeper to bring it back to King's Landing, but also uh just for people to know, in the novel, um Darren, the thing is in the book, he doesn't leave King's Landing until like a couple years before Viserys' death, so people know him, like they they wouldn't have been able to be fooled having him be gone for so long, and literally Alison saying, I don't even know what he looks like, like I can't even remember remember him. Um, and there was uh I think there was a scene um because we all said that through season one, are they gonna really not mention their on? You know, that's a big you know it's a fourth kid we don't hear about him yeah um there was a scene I learned that uh in in Lena's funeral in season one I think one of I think Eamon or um Aegon asked Otto hey so how is um their undoing something like that like just to kind of throw a line out there to say hey by the way we have a younger brother's in old town or something but they they didn't they cut it uh yeah there's a lot of questions there's a lot of I see so many people talking about this scene of why wouldn't um Damon force this kid to get on Tesarion because if he would have tried to get on the dragon he would have been eaten or he would have been attacked by Tessarian yeah and then that whole little Scooby-doo Sutaroo thing would have not worked. For people who don't like the Switchero and a fake identity I mean it's happened so many times in the world of a song of Ice and Fire and and for those who have not read the book um they have a fake aria marry Ruse Bolton or Ramsey oh yes yes you know they take you know Littlefinger takes a girl and just says hey this is a because they don't know what Arya looks like and they just believe it. They take some random northern girl and say this is ary fake identities you have young Griff who's out there a secret Targaryen Bob you know what I mean that so it's it's not far fetched. Maybe that proves that Alison is not gonna betray her because she could have just oh my son Darren I love you. You know what I mean like just kind of playing with it.

SPEAKER_00 45:36

But she her true emotions came like um who's that yeah the the gif there's like a gif going around where it's um Alison looking at Darren and then another one where Renera is looking at Alison's reaction and they're both going kind of viral right now. I don't know if you've seen them just because their expressions in that scene are I don't want to say they're funny because they were like interesting you know like they were they weren't funny when you watch for the first time but watching back is really funny just because I mean they can't hide their train of thought and they just communicate before they even say anything you know I don't know that it was it was funny.

SPEAKER_03 46:17

Yeah it was kind of like Orman has tricked me and did he really he really think I wouldn't find out what is he trying to do um and I was like of course uh he's playing the game of thrones yeah he knows how to play you know that game that you either win or die like he and then it feels like every time team black feels like they win somehow team green has figures out a way to get the upper hand even though they're supposed to be the underdogs now they still feel like yeah that they're on top you know they're one step ahead and now you know she's in this conundrum now okay we mentioned uh we forgot to mention that Hugh runs up the stairs to talk to Rennero like kind of you know abruptly and goes um by the way um do I get paid or anything like uh how did this work you know my wife and and she goes you know I didn't you know your wife and blah blah blah blah blah and he goes well she left to Tumbleton and once he said that I go and that's all I'll say uh yeah but he's not this is not the first time he's done this like he did he said the same thing to Aegon in season two like oh by the way I need to we need to get paid like he he's pretty straightforward with with the with the royals did you find it um amusing that Renera looks at this fake Daron and she goes and looks like picks up his hair to see the roots yeah yeah yeah and did you go back to when Alison used to do that to her kids like when Alison Wait what I don't remember that she she checked the roots no she remember when uh we meet Ranera this Renera and Alison in season episode six season one and she gives birth yeah to her third to Joffrey yes she she walks up the stairs because he the queen wants to see the baby and the queen wants to see the baby to see the color of his hair oh right right right and I just thought it was kind of oh my god a cool little like hmm and I have Caden send us another little statement or a little funny thing saying Jason Luke punching the air realizing they could have dyed their hair the whole time and you see this a million memes of like the actors with what just like with the blonde hair which doesn't look yeah yeah photoshopped it doesn't look right no and I think he told me okay so are they gonna explain how they even were able to dye somebody's hair like how does how do they make that how do they I wonder is there some kind of crazing concoction that you do and mix some kind of plants to

Dragonkeeper reveals Ormunds plans

SPEAKER_03 49:05

make this die.

SPEAKER_00 49:06

When I talked about Hugh and and Tobleton and his wife going there we get to that scene where the dragon keeper comes and and they taught he tells them about how Orman took took the city and she she she becomes angry and says I'm gonna destroy them and but he kind of just lets them know that you know you can't do that since you're gonna you're gonna kill your own people people who have been faithful to you who have been team black uh so it's when when you look at it that way that's a brilliant move by Orman to sack the city and be like okay I moved my chest piece here now it's your turn what are you gonna do are you gonna yeah rain fire down on your own people before

Aegon & Rhaenyra similar dealings with the small folk

SPEAKER_00 49:53

we finish our review there I have a few notes here uh in a behind the scenes video Ryan Condo says that Ranera's scene on the iron throne hearing position hearing petitions from the commoners is meant to directly parallel Aegon in season two uh the season premier son of son uh in both scenes a new monarch is presented with problems that cannot be easily addressed they want to respond generously so that the commoners will support them and that was a funny scene with Aegon he goes oh our sheep and they go oh yeah yeah we'll give them all back to you yeah yeah then no problem yeah and Otto's like yeah yeah I remember actually we we can't do that uh so the same thing with with uh Corless he has to interject and say hey we have limited resources we can't really do that so that was a a a kind of uh you know just the kind of yeah and also uh during that scene I don't know if you noticed that the woman that speaks to Renera during that scene was Sylvie she's the character we've met in both season one and season two of House of the Dragon um in season one like basically the who she is she owns like establishments if you in in in King's Landing that were frequently visited by Aegon and then Eamon used to visit her specifically in season two and I can't remember if she was more team greens or team blacks because she has that relationship with them and she knows like the T about them you know um she's the one that I think knows of Aegon's illegitimate children. But I saw something that said that last season she had spread anti-green propaganda and I don't really remember that because I didn't get the chance to rewatch season two of House of the Dragon before season three.

SPEAKER_03 51:27

So I'm not sure where she dies but she's the one that points the finger to the rich people of King's Landing which then um pushes Renew to like do what she did um and like re redistribute that worth and like uh you know take from the the rich in in in King's Landing so I don't know where she's at I don't know if she's gonna play a role because she's not a book character so she's completely the new show's creation so we'll see

Rhaenyra’s Talk With Helaena And Alicent

SPEAKER_03 51:50

I just wanted to to point out that she's a character of Team Before and something actually that I found out that's kind of interesting is that this is I think if I'm not mistaken the first conversation we see Ranier have with one of her half siblings from Alisson's uh and it's with Helena uh it's interesting this is the first time that they had a conf proper conversation um but basically when she goes to tell them that they're in house rust uh Helena asks her a genuine question which is did it make you feel better um about losing Jace so um she's referring to killing Otto and then she said Renera said I would rather have seen Aegon as your mother and I had agreed but here we are he's gone um and poor Helena just wants to she's like you promised us and you know Ronera just says I'm not gonna treat you unkindly you're gonna have this you're gonna have servants you know I'll make sure again and you could you know Ranera's being truthful she's always held Helena as an innocent like she is a true innocent and she knows that what she tells Alison is that I will set you free once Eamon is dead Alison responds I think oh so I'm just gonna have to sit here hoping for the death of my son which is you know kind of cruel when you think about it. But yeah we're gonna have to kill that scary SOB alright so let's get

Ratings, Emmy nods, and upcoming podcast recording schedule

SPEAKER_03 53:15

to the let's get to the ratings. IMDB as of right now has this episode at 8.4 what is your rating of Renera's triumph which doesn't feel like a triumph at all it feels like yeah I I like that though I like the double meaning and it also it's also a the title of the chapter in the book. Yeah um I'd give it I guess an 8.5 oh okay what about you I think I'll I'll do the same uh I I I really just love I I love slow episodes like this because especially when we're following such an important character and detailed character as Renera during her first day in in office yeah and I love the memes that are coming out of it that that that famous meme of Ben Affleck standing outside the door with a cigarette. Yeah yeah yeah they have they have Renera like when when does it end oh I can I clock out now I just want to go home so yeah I I think it was a needed scene hopefully one of those scenes that the the basically it was basically one day yeah and one day and then first day on the job first day on the job and then also thinking about damn like we only have five more episodes what are they gonna do you know they mention the town here and then there's so many events how is this gonna spiral out of control is this Bernera gonna get you know I mean there's just so many questions to to to get answered.

SPEAKER_00 54:54

And before we go we actually have some good news um while we were recording the Emmy nominations were released and we found it out that's when I said Seven Kingdoms got nine nominations at the Emmys and we're so proud of them. So they were nominated for the big award which is Outstanding Drama series. So happy about that but unfortunately none of the casts were nominated everything else uh is still worthy of the nomination though which is like the technical categories they were nominated for Outstanding Fancy Sci-Fi costumes uh period or fancy sci-fi hairstyling sound editing special visual effects in a single episode stance performances music composition and production design for a narrative program and cinematography which is another good one another good technical one like a big one so um very happy for them I'm just I'm I'm so glad that they were nominated they it was such a good show and when is the M is I think in like September or October or something like that.

SPEAKER_03 55:49

September yeah yeah uh it's gonna be hosted by Marishka Hargate. Yeah one of my uh all-time crushes anyway that's gonna be it for us uh we're gonna be back hopefully we could try to record next week if not our next episode will be covering episode four and five and to keep up to date with that information you know follow us on Instagram dancing with underscore dragons there we'll post if we're gonna be recording next week or if not thank you all for listening to the 89th episode of Dancing with Dragons until next time peace out