The Battle of the Gullet

Minwa and Tony break down House of the Dragon season 3 premiere “Salt and Sea, Fire and Blood” and discuss whether the Battle of the Gullet hits harder as a premiere or would’ve been devastating at the end of Season 2. We track the biggest Fire & Blood changes, the character choices that shift blame and agency, and the political fear simmering under all that dragonfire.

Transcript

Cold Open And Welcome

SPEAKER_01 0:00

We've come to die with a dragon queen.

SPEAKER_00 0:15

Very good. We've got more lands to hunt. Hello and welcome to Dancing with Dragons, your go-to podcast for everything. Game of Thrones, House of the Dragon, and the world of George R. Martin's song of ice and fire. My name is Huno, and I'm here as always with my co-host Tony. And today, after months of speculation, anticipation, casting announcements and theories, traders and analysis, we're here at House of the Dragon season three. Episode one finally premiered, and the Dance of the Dragons is no longer just looming on the horizon. It's finally, actually, actually here. Today we begin our episode by episode breakdown of season three of House of the Dragon. Of course, starting with the premier episode, Salt and Sea, Fire and Blood. We'll be unpacking the biggest performances, changes from the book Fire and Blood, and what this episode tells us about the direction of season three. So grab your banners, whether green and gold or black and red, and join us as we dive into House of the Dragon, season three, episode one. Before we get started, unpacking everything and going through the episode scene by scene. Overall, how are you, Tony? And how did you feel about the episode?

SPEAKER_01 1:28

I'm doing well. Thank you for asking. Hope you're doing well as well. Um we

What if this episode was in season 2?

SPEAKER_01 1:33

had a yeah, okay. We had a plan of to do an episode of recapping season two, and it just fell through with our schedules. And I just mentioned it to you in a text. I said, Why don't we just do a little mini mini recap of season two before we start talking about season three? And after watching this episode, I don't even think I can do that because seeing this premiere convinced me that HBO fumble the bag, as the kids say, in cutting episode 9 and 10 from season two, and having this battle take place in the season premiere. Let me explain. Like having this episode of the Battle of the Gullet as the penultimate episode for season two would have carried so much more emotional weight, you know. And I'll be honest, yeah, I didn't really have any emotion at all to Jace's death, which is really weird because we knew it was coming. We read it like six what almost eight years ago when the book came out. And that it doesn't mean that I because I knew it was coming, I prepared for it because I knew of the Red Wedding two years before it premiered on a TV screen, and that still haunts me to this day. And I knew about it. So season two abruptly ending because you know it the writer strike and HBO deciding to cut the episodes hurt the emotional punch that we or I should have felt because you actually said before we recorded that you got teary-eyed, and I and I stopped myself because I'm not gonna wait until we recorded to say I didn't feel kind of anything, uh, which is fine. I know the people who don't who didn't see it coming were probably like, okay, he's gonna survive, or they they can't Brunera cannot lose another child, there's no way. Uh, but I don't know, it just felt different for me. It maybe when we do a season three recap and you could watch all three seasons back to back to back, and you don't have to wait those two years, it you'll feel that emotional punch, like I said. But I don't know. I just want to say shame on you, HBO. And it feels like I'm ranting and I apologize, and that I'm harping on this point of this episode being that should have been in season two, but this premiere you know was 72 minutes long. Yeah, it felt short because we had like every single character show up, every location. Like, I think you mentioned right now before we recorded that it broke the record of the most locations and more the most POV we've ever seen. And like I know for this show, I don't know about uh Game of Thrones. Game of Thrones had a ton of POVs and and locations. I'm so sorry, but imagine this Minoir the battle okay, the battle of the gullet as the penultimate, right? But it was treated like the Blackwater episode in season two. Now stay with me. We just stay at the gullet the whole time, and we see Reina and Sheep Stealer in the in the beginning. We see that part, but the rest of the episode is focused on the sea and the air battle, and then we can feel the we could feel the characters picking up the pieces in the finale of season two. You know what I'm saying? Then we could focus on King's Landing and Dragonstone and the Riverlands, and I don't know, maybe I'm just crazy. I just I just feel like it would have been in my mind, it would have worked better that way than having to wait the two years. And and I'm not saying that the the episode was not good because I was just so happy to see the the battle finally. And and I'm gonna give credit to Eric because the CGI looks so good. Sheaf Sealer looks incredible. The his design, I mean the overbite, the wildness of the the dragon, just the sharp edges, yes, the bone. I think so.

SPEAKER_00 5:34

Yeah, I'm I wasn't sure if it was just like sharpness or bones, but you looked cool either way.

SPEAKER_01 5:40

Yeah, so just the battle, everything looked great. I'm just saying that what if what if we could dream and have this episode as the penultimate? Okay, let I'll have you, I'll have you talk because I uh uh yeah, I'm gonna go on another rant, and I don't want to just keep talking. And it's already what seven minutes in and I I need to shut up.

SPEAKER_00 6:04

Okay, just as a warning for for our listeners as well, before we started recording, recording, Tony was like, um, I just I have a rant. I have a rant incoming for this episode. Oh my god. And he was just like holding himself from speaking about the episode before we started recording, and he wanted to, I could tell, because he was like, okay, let's record, let's record. And now I think we've seen the beginning of that. So look, I agree with you. I I don't disagree at all. I think that it would have worked exceptionally well as the episode nine to um House of the Dragon season two, and we should have seen it, especially since it picks up right, right, right, right where season two um ends. And I mean, so it's just a natural way, that's how they had to continue the story. You know, there's that that's the story. They can't just skip ahead a couple of months. You know, that's it's the story as as George wrote it. So it would have made the best sense, would have been perfect if they kept it at season two. Um and maybe for there may be maybe there are some people out there that are similar to you where they felt sort of that disconnect um between uh you know, considering all this time and they didn't feel much reacting to Jace's death. Um personally, I have seen a lot of positive reactions or I've heard positive reactions from people around me that um thought that was a strong start. Um I, as I said, as you said, I cried. Um I got teary-eyed because I just reread the Fire and Blood chapters that relate to season three. And I just got so emotional. And then when I read it, watched it on screen, I got so emotional again. I don't know why. Maybe I just felt for Renera losing, you know, both of her sons from her, you know, from her first like I don't say husband, but like from her first love.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

So my silly complaint is that I just wish this was in season two. I and it has nothing to do with how strong the episode, I think.

SPEAKER_00 7:57

Oh, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:58

I'm not saying, oh, I'm gonna give it a five out of ten because it should have been season two. No, I'm not doing that.

Jace and his decisions

SPEAKER_01 8:04

You know, the the other thing that I would like to say is that I think my son was uh was like okay, you know, one of them is gonna die. Jace had this look in his eye, like he was bloodthirsty, and it was a kind of a weird performance from from Harry Collette. What's his name, right? Harry. When he's talking to Baylor, he goes, Yeah, we got his eyes were like, You saw his eyes? It was kind of like he wanted to laugh. He was like possessed.

SPEAKER_00 8:30

I think he was like like hungry for the opportunity, and you could see that um appetite, I guess, or excitement in his in his eyes for sure.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

He's been this kid who's been referred to as known as a bastard. Strong, you know what I mean? Like he's had that massive ship on his shoulder. He wants to prove himself. He's been wanting to prove himself. He wanted to go to Rick's rest, he wanted to do he, you know what I mean? He's been waiting to do this. I I don't know if you have more on on what I said about the beginning, but if you want to move on to what I have next.

SPEAKER_00 9:03

No, let's let's let's go ahead. I don't have anything else to say.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

Full steam ahead as the battle. Let's see if okay. Here's my here's my biggest thing I wanted to before I get to Raina. What are your thoughts about Sir Lauren obeying Jace over his queen?

SPEAKER_00 9:20

I thought it was odd at first, for sure. Um I think initially my first like uh uh explanation that I kind of gave as to why he would obey Jace rather than Rena is because he somewhat I don't say trusts Jace, but he it's some sort of possible internal misogyny, maybe you know, where it's like, yeah, maybe she's overreacting and I should like this is me protecting her because she's overreacting. So something along those lines. Um but I read online that I think this is Ryan Connell's explanation where he said that the reason one of the reasons why Jace did it is because he knows that it's for uh Renera's safety, you know. It's obviously what he said the whole time, and it's for you know he that this is the best uh thing for Renere to lock her up. And it's you know, it it's keeping her safety in mind, and that that's the actual uh reason. And he can also see that if Renera dies, the black team black claim just disappears because then just automatically they're gonna accept the green. So so Ryan Condola, I think, said that that's what the knight understands. He knows that they can't lose her, um, and that's why he he obeyed Jace, because he wants to protect Renera. I mean, I understand, but it feels a bit weird.

SPEAKER_01 10:40

It just felt kind of like I don't know, it just didn't seem right. And for those who don't know about the book, and and we're gonna pretty much, you know, going forward, the book and this has nothing to do with each other anymore because there's so many huge changes. But for those who would like to know, uh at the beginning of the Battle of the Gullet, Renera's still mourning, I think, Lucera. She's still mourning, and and the child who died in childbirth. So she's still nitrogen for like months, yeah. And Jace took it upon himself to take the dragon seeds to go to the gullet. So he had both uh Adam and Hugh Hammer and Nettles. So um, with

Showrunners protecting Rhaenyra?

SPEAKER_01 11:23

Jace's death, now we have to be patient with Renero. She has to mourn again, right? And we have to see her not uh not be in control or responsible for any decision or outcome in order to keep her image clean, right? Rainice, she doesn't send her, she doesn't want to send Rhese has to volunteer. Okay, she doesn't get blamed for Renice's death in the novel. She sends Rainice to Rooks Rest. Corless is pissed at Ranera, blah blah blah blah. Here she, you know, in the book, she's bedridden, but again, why not just have her say, Go, Jace, go, you need to do this, and then you know what I mean? Like, we have to keep the clean image, like the season two, like she can do no wrong. And then we I did see Emma Darcy say in an interview that she cannot wait to see the fans stand by Ranera after she becomes less than perfect. But I I that's I'm paraphrasing. Um, she they probably said that differently. Somebody said, Will we get to defend atrocities? That's what we want to see from Ronera. Well, we have to defend her. She, you know, is Jace's death the straw that's gonna break her dragon's back. Uh how long do we have to wait? Next episode? Because we see the the preview, she's in bed crying for another son, which is understandable. Um, I I'm just rambling here, but you go ahead.

SPEAKER_00 12:47

Yeah, no, I think the Yeah, I know. No, I didn't even say that what's came out. I was like, like, yeah, no, Tony, I know. Sorry, Tony. No, no, no, you weren't rambling, but like I was I was like trying to I I wouldn't say rambling. I was trying to make my comments. Um that's just what came up. For Ranera, um I saw Emma Darcy talk about how it's a very crucial thing, I think, for Renera, where she she couldn't send Jace because she couldn't bear to send her son after like her send her son Jace after sending both of them and losing one of them. Like she feared doing that because of the trauma of of the past when when that resulted in Luke's death. So um in a way, I think that her, you know, like this kind of I don't want to say it shows that she's not at fault, but it's you know, it shows that in a way that she's not at fault for that because she'd wanted to do it herself. And it's also I think it underscores the theme or like the main uh struggle that Renera faces, which is that as a woman, nobody uh listens to her, nobody believes in her, they're not letting her kind of do what she wants, whereas if she was a man, then she would they would obviously let her do whatever she wants. So um I think it like that whole thing just uh underscores that and and shows that she can't really do what she wants as as a woman in power um in in the world of Game of Thrones. So um that's I I feel like it's I don't have a big problem with her not an Indian gesture, and I don't think it's to make her perfect. I think it's because of this. Because this is my opinion, this is my analysis.

SPEAKER_01 14:26

And she has that great quote about a print, you know, I don't know if you have it with you.

SPEAKER_00 14:31

Yeah, I do. It's a it's actually a historical quote from Queen Elizabeth I.

SPEAKER_01 14:35

Yes, I saw it.

SPEAKER_00 14:36

Um when she says that when she has the feeble body of a woman, yet the spirit of a king. Um, yeah, it's the quote of Queen Elizabeth II, sorry, of England during the attempted invasion by the Spanish Armada.

SPEAKER_01 14:48

I'm just gonna be interested to see what they do with Sir Laurent because um, or maybe Bela stakes up for Sir Sir Laurent and says, Hey, Jace is the one who forced him to do it, but still, why would you listen to him and why? I the the Reina situation with with Rennera is gonna be interesting because with Reyna taking over Nettles storyline or arc, you know, Reyna and Nettles didn't see eye to eye, but she had a very long and you know there's reasons why Rain uh Ranera didn't like Nettles and and it has to do with Damon and all that stuff, and she she basically announced that that Nettles was a traitor to the crown. Is that correct, right?

SPEAKER_00 15:36

I think it's something along those lines. Um I don't mind that they changed that because I don't want to see um I think one of the fans that doesn't want to see Damon start an affair because why? One of the things we love about Damon is because like his most famous scene, arguably, is when he kills um was it Squirreless's brother, the one that's inside in front of everyone.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

Yeah, Veyman.

SPEAKER_00 15:58

Umund, yeah. So we love seeing that side of Damon that will go to you know every length to to defend his wife. So why do we like nobody wants to see that? Nobody wants to see him.

SPEAKER_01 16:08

Is this moment of having Raina and Sheep Stealer crash the party and the Battle of the Gullet, and all of a sudden it it results at the you know the death of Jace? I think Jace was gonna die anyway, but having that now be the sole responsible, having Sheep Stealer be the only responsible, is Ranera gonna take it out on Raina? Is Raina gonna be in the outs? What is what is Raina gonna have to do uh to get back into the good graces of even Bela, because Bayla could have convinced Jace to not do what he did.

Rhaena Claims Sheepstealer

SPEAKER_01 16:46

Okay, so let's get to Raina and Sheepsealer. I get why they did it. It's easier, like you said, you don't want to have another another character, but you know, nettles is such a beloved character for everybody. Here's what I like Sheepsealer, stealing sheep to feed Raina. It felt like a nod to Nettles because Nettles would bring sheep to Sheepsealer every morning, and that's how uh they bonded. You know, according to the wiki ice and fire, nettles was a bastard of uncertain birth, born to a dark side whore. That sounds horrible. Uh, she grew up homeless in Spice Town. So again, like we don't know, it's one of those mysteries. Like there I just looked it up really quick. There's like a million Reddit threads there about her about her birth and where she comes from. Um, but I like to think that she's that George put this character in to say, look, you don't have to be uh uh have the blood of all Valeria to ride a dragon. Let's have somebody with no blood and just bond with the dragon slowly and get to ride, you know. I mean, that would have been kind of cool. In my head, she's not a dragon C. Uh, okay, so let me focus on Reina. Why would Raina think she could control a wild dragon? He's never had a writer. Uh, a dragon that was not raised in the dragon pit, not raised to listen to instructions or commands. I mean, does he even know High Valerian or understand it? I mean, he's a 70-year-old dragon, and all of a sudden he's has this writer and she's yelling all this stuff to him. He didn't know how to get to Dragonstone. He understood Dragonstone. Her heart was in the right place, right? She wants to help. But you you're commanding a wild dragon into battle. You've been riding it for 10 minutes, and all of a sudden you're saying Dracaris. Um, I don't know, and then all of a sudden, sheep seal is like, I have no idea what's going on. You want me to dracar us her? Okay, I'm gonna just do it to everybody. I don't care who is going, what's going on? Um, it was a terrible mistake by her part, and her assuming that all their dragons are created equal, like once you mount them, she's like, they will obey your every command. That's not that's not how it works, and I think she was going to regret and and rule, I guess, that moment for I guess the rest of her life because she almost even killed her own sister.

SPEAKER_00 19:20

Um, I saw Brian Condra's explanation as to why I did see it too.

SPEAKER_01 19:26

Before you go into that, let's not forget that Raina left young Viserys and Aegon. Her whole job was to stay with those boys and be the mother that Renera can be to them. So she abandoned those boys to go on this crusade to get this dragon. Okay, go.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

Okay. Firstly, about Raina and what Ryan Condell said about that and the explanation that he gave. Um, so just in case, like readers need the refresher or like readers, listeners, um, Raina is one of the few dragonless people in in this show. Like she's a Targaryen, she has Targaryen blood, but she has had no dragon. Like she didn't bond with one. Um, so it's always been her wish to have a dragon. In the books, she does not bond with a dragon, does not become a dragon rider. And Ryan Connor's explanation was that he kind of wanted us because it was like a family show, House of the Dragon, he wants a member of the family to be, I guess, more involved in the drama. So that's why he he included Raina rather than just another random person. It makes more sense. And um, in a way, I kind of uh see that because I think if it was someone else, Raina would have been forgotten about, and at least now we she has a bigger role. Um but the other thing that he said was that because Raina has no because Raina didn't have a dragon and it's always been her dream to have one, he said it's Westerosian, um, sort of like be careful what you wish for that type of situation where she wished for a dragon for so long and she finally claimed one, but it has disastrous consequences. I don't really see uh a big issue with that, honestly, because I understand um like I feel like it kind of works, it's just very frustrating because we don't we don't want to see all that go down and we feel like it's a stupid decision with doing what she did. Maybe she just bonded with this wild dragon who has never bonded with anyone before, and dragons um can mainly listen to commands if they're younger and sort of you know bond with the person and and and you know understand them more. But so she's just claiming this random wild, like old dragon and trying to get it to do all of that. I think she's just she's trying and her as you said, her heart's in a good place in a good place, but the the cost of what's happened to happen. But I think it's it might open at least, I guess, new um it can create, I guess, more you know, more maybe more character development or tension between the characters. So and uh if it leads to something of more substance, yeah. That's worth it. We'll see, even though I said that's worth it, but it's a very um uh like known thing that whenever they speak about a battle of the god. That they keep saying that it wasn't worth it. I'm not gonna speak more on what's gonna happen in future episodes. I think in the book, Corus says something like if this is victory, I don't like the taste of it anymore. Something like that.

SPEAKER_01 22:11

So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

Yeah, so poor Raina, and then you said about Joffrey and uh Viserys. Joffrey Rainer. Joffrey. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 22:23

Joffrey is somewhere in Dragonstone. I haven't seen him yet.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

And Aegon. Oh my god, Aegond. I said Aegond. I don't know what's wrong with me. Let me take a pause one second.

SPEAKER_01 22:38

One of the reasons why you probably changes arc or give it to Raina and have that Sheaf Stealer in the battle with her. You save money. In the original battle in the novel, you have five dragons. Five dragons flying around. That's a lot. I think the most we've ever had is three. Like fighting. You know, Daenerys had three in the Battle of the Bastards episode, that they were just shooting fire and all that stuff. And in this episode, we have eight dragons appear, which is a record for Game of Thrones, House of the Dragon. You have three at the Gullet, three at the Isle of Faces with the Dragon Seeds. You have Caraxes in the Riverland, that's a Sarion in the Reach with the Ormond and Daron. To me, having the dragon seeds not have their hero moment in the gullet was I don't know. I I I I sure for sure thought that they were gonna go to the battle because that's what's gonna happen. You know what I mean? And I figured okay, Reyna's gonna bomb with Sheepsealer and then show up maybe in a couple episodes. But I didn't realize she was gonna go straight into the battle. Having the dragon

Dragonseeds And Green Men

SPEAKER_01 23:49

seeds in the ala faces was kind of a weird thing because it it it it one of those things that's not a that's not a smart strategy by Ronera to leave those three unattended without like an actual somebody who can control them and give them commands. They're just twiddling their thumbs, like, okay, we're just waiting here, and we have to do something, and then all of a sudden Alice Rivers just shows up, and then you see the green man, which is kind of a cool little thing uh to see. I mean, it's it's not a random creature, it's it's one of the legendary creatures in the world of us, Song of Ice and Fire. Um, they're like the legendary guardians of the Isle of the Faces, and according to the lore, they protect the Weirwoods and preserve the ancient pact between the humans and the children of the forest. So I don't know if this is a way for the show to like properly introduce one of the oldest and more mysterious orders. Like, is this hinting that ancient magic is gonna become a part of season three? With Alice Rivers there and the green, you know what I mean? That's that's like I wish that I wanted that more in in Game of Thrones. We got a little bit of that with my brand, but we didn't really get the full might of magic, like we've always said.

SPEAKER_00 25:06

If you see the trader for the upcoming episodes, there's one that's like the weeks ahead for multiple episodes, and there's one for um the next episode. I forgot where we see it, but we definitely see a certain someone in Heron Hall, so I mean we can expect Alice there as well.

SPEAKER_01 25:23

It's funny, it it's funny. I uh less

Aemond and Alicent have a moment

SPEAKER_01 25:26

I guess let's get to Allison and Eamon and the Kiss, which was not as not as weird as I thought it would be. Not as weird as as Ranera and Masaria. Not as weird as Rhaneira and Masaria, because that came out of uh left field. Eamon has just absolutely lost his mind. I mean, he first we get to see him pick poor uh Maester, what's his name? The Maester. Um, because he thinks he helped in the aid of the escape of of Aegon, and he's like, and then he realizes that it was that it was Laris, and he was ready to just chop the poor Maester's head off.

SPEAKER_00 26:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:07

Uh, and then he just says, you know what? He abdicated the throne. I am the king now. No, no ceremony, no nothing, no, no, no, it's just I'm the king. That's it. And Alison, we see this humongous change of Allison now trying to aid Ranera. I guess not aid is not the word, right? Like help facilitate the taking of King's Landing without bloodshed, because she's telling Rhere in the finale, I'm going to open the gates, Helena will be there, you can take King's Landing, and then in a way to kind of manipulate Aaman, she's just like, Oh, I'm fear for you. You need to go, and somehow he believes it. I don't know why. And then you have that stare, they're like literally like inches away. Uh, and then you have this kiss, which is like, I I love the reason why it wasn't awkward and weird is because of Olivia Cook's performance. Yeah, the way she's gonna be.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

Yeah, she she saves it to that.

SPEAKER_01 27:06

She's like, What? But she knows that she can't do anything or say anything because this man is crazy.

SPEAKER_00 27:13

Yeah, for me, I think in this episode we see Addison's frightened all throughout from the moment that she hears the king and finds out that it's Aemond all the way up to that scene with um that you know kiss scene with Aemond. Um because Olivia Cook said it herself, she described Eamund as being much harder to control than Aegon, which is definitely the case. With Aegon in power, I guess, as king and being bedridden, the power kind of lies with her because she didn't expect Eamon to be there at all.

SPEAKER_01 27:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

So she felt a bit more safe and secure, but then now with Eamon being there, it just throws everything up in the air, it's like a curved ball because he's rogue the same way that Damon is, and he's wild, he can do whatever he wants. So um she's scared, and I think that she actually only really sees or confirms that Eamund is scared as well when Helena comes and tells her, you know, he's scared, and and that's the reality of it. Like he might seem like he's on the throne and everything, but it finally clicks for Alicent that he's scared as well. And then when she meets him, and you know, they have that scene together, Amund and Alicent. Aamond, uh Ewen Mitchell, the actor who plays him said this, said this himself. He said that he's not stupid, he knows that Alicent's kind of just buttering him up and telling him everything he wants to hear, but he needs to hear those things, and he's not going to um protest, basically. He's going to accept it. So that's why he accepts it, because that's the words that he wants he's wanted to hear all his life. You know, you should have been you, you're the the the chosen one, you're better than your brother, stuff like that. That's all the stuff that that he kind of wanted to hear, and the beliefs that he that he had in his mind that he needed to be validated, and just getting that, I think he kind of just wanted to hold on to that for a bit longer, and that's why Alison did that, and um why he he, I guess like obeyed her or listened to her and went off to um Herrenhard. So he knows, but he he doesn't mind that he knows. He he I think the actor said he sees what he wants to see, and yeah, I think that's what we see Eamon doing. And he kind of reacts that way, I think, just because he doesn't know how to express any emotion, you know.

SPEAKER_01 29:20

I think just what came out, but I think uh Helena had a really good quote you said to Allison. She said, uh Eamon's threatened too. After he claimed Vagar, he forgot what fear was, but he remembers now. He knows that if he has to face Renera's dragons, he'll die.

SPEAKER_00 29:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:38

I mean he I mean Vagar is the biggest, baddest, oldest dragon. But five against one, doesn't matter how big you are, you're gonna you're gonna die.

SPEAKER_00 29:47

Yeah. Um and one of the dragons, um, I forgot which one of them is just like a tiny bit smaller than Vagar.

SPEAKER_01 29:55

Oh, Vermathor.

SPEAKER_00 29:56

Vermathor.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

Yeah, the uh hammer, the new hammers, dragon's dragon, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:01

Dragon.

SPEAKER_01 30:02

And which which I was expecting to see in the battle, but I guess we have another battle is uh Tumbleton, which is maybe that'll be in the season, because there's a lot of battles that that need to be done.

SPEAKER_00 30:14

Yeah, speaking

Battles in the Riverlands

SPEAKER_00 30:15

of the like battles in the Riverland, something that um they've been doing with Hass the Dragon is all of these Riverlands battles that have been going on, that have been going on since the war, tension began between Team Blacks and Team Greens. They've largely kept those battles off screen. I think there was that big battle we saw last season that we saw just like the complete, like all the corpses on that. I forgot what the battle was called, but it was um like all of those battles due to budget concerns and like plots constraints, they they move them off-screen. Yeah. Um, or they kind of just show us the aftermath, like Damon's uh scene in this episode was like it was just considered the aftermath of the battle. Um, there was something that said, like, well, why was Damon not riding his dragon? Like, why didn't we not see Caraxis in that battle? And they said um explanation given was that Damon uh is done fighting, this is the end, and he just wants to have fun killing people with his sword. He doesn't he he he's had his dragon fun already, but they can't afford to VFX like such an unimportant battle, I guess. Um something where like if we don't have that big of a casualty, they have they have to use all the VFX budgets on Battle of the Gullets for this episode. So um it's interesting. I think they'll leave the big um like for those Riverland battle scenes, they'll they'll leave them as long as there's something important that comes out of it. And I think you're referring to a certain battle where there is something important that happens there, so um I assume they'll leave that.

SPEAKER_01 31:43

Uh I was surprised to see Oscar Tully there because I think the Tullies don't enter the fight to towards the the next following battles, but I I think Oscar Tully is a combination of several several characters, including Kermit and Elmo, which I still get a kick out of George or Armar naming Lords of House Lords of House Tully with Sesame Street puppets. Because you had to like when I tell people, yeah, you have Oscar, Elmo, and Kermit Tully. We

The Winter Wolves

SPEAKER_01 32:15

started this episode off with Sir Roderick Dustin uh saying we're here to die for our Dragon Queen. And casting Tommy Flanagan to play Sir Roderick was just pure genius because he looks like the part, and he's not a Stark, he's a Dustin, he is um House Dustin of Barrington, and he's there they hold fealty to House Stark because it was a safe assumption to say he was a Stark because you see all the Stark banners in the back. Um, and we get to see him not in action, we see these guys come and they have poor Jason Lannister's head. They just throw it. Yeah. Um I saw a thing about the Jason Lannister. The the the actor is called Jefferson Hall, and this is the second time he's died in the world of Game of Thrones, the Westerosie franchise. He appeared in Game of Thrones season one as the Hugh of the Veil. He was John Aaron's like squire, and John Aaron promoted him. Remember, he had that fancy armor, and Ned is like, How did he he was a squire a month ago? How did he acquire all that fancy armor? And he was the one that the mountain killed in the fourth episode in the joust.

SPEAKER_00 33:31

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:32

That was Jefferson Hall, so he's died twice. So I thought that was kind of a funny thing. Not funny, but it's kind of cool. He gets to say, Hey, I've died twice in the world of the Westeros.

Alicent joining Team Black?

SPEAKER_01 33:45

Back to Allison, really quick. Um, you know, I just I mentioned that her character is like being completely rewritten. She was kind of a non-factor for a while. And I don't know, are you gonna dig the fact that what if Helena and Allison become team black? Is that does that make any sense at all? Would you like to see that?

SPEAKER_00 34:06

Um no, right?

SPEAKER_01 34:09

Because I feel like that's what that's where it's going. I feel like Ryan Condel wants to have Emma and Olivia together on screen.

SPEAKER_00 34:18

So I think that they're definitely going to have uh scenes in this season. I think I heard Emma Darcy and Olivia Cook, one of them, say that, oh, it's so great that we get to work more together this season. I was like, oh, okay, we're this isn't true to the book, but let's see. Um I think that it's fine. I think what we're going to see is tensions rise until something happens where Addison regrets her decision, probably to let uh Renier take over the city. I think that's how we're that's gonna go down.

unknown 34:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:50

I don't think we're gonna see Renera uh sorry, Alison just pledge her for loyalty to Renera. I don't like in what universe I don't see that happening.

SPEAKER_01 34:57

Maybe I'm gonna predict if something happens to Helena that really upsets Alison. No, it's not it's not I don't think the way the show's going, I don't think she's gonna have the same ending as the novel. I'm talking about uh something that happens in a bridge. And maybe that'll turn Alison back to you, you know, hating Renera. Um but yeah, I I'm not digging the the I I wanna still have that. I I don't trust you factor. We

Aegon will not Kneel

SPEAKER_01 35:30

mentioned Aegon, I guess we could talk about him. There's a funny scene with Laris and him getting stopped by soldiers of uh House Staunton, which is kind of funny because Rooks Rest is the seat of House Staunton, and Rooks Rest was destroyed. So for them to stop him, which kind of kind of a funny thing. Like, I think I just saw your story about Aegon and like anybody could just take a knee and say, Yeah, yeah, of course, we love Queen. We love her, we love her.

SPEAKER_00 36:00

Uh so lousy, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 36:02

What's two plus two? Four. You're good. Go ahead. Yeah, you can pass. I think this scene was to display Laris's quick thinking and Aegon's stubbornness of and and idiocy of not knowing the situation. If it's that easy just to get through, just take a knee. Who cares? Nobody's gonna see you.

SPEAKER_00 36:24

Yeah, I saw that the actor Tom Dean Carney, who plays Aegon, said something like in the original, original script, they had Aegon bend the knee quickly, like with like uh Laris did. He didn't protest, he didn't put up a fight or anything like that. Um, and he stopped that and he kind of flagged that and said, I don't think that that's true to Aegon's character. And I think that I'm glad that he said that because I mean it just feels more true to Aegon that he kind of wouldn't be smart enough to do that on the one hand, and would just um put up that fight and then be like proud in who he is and get himself into trouble. That feels more Aegon to me. I don't know why they would make Aegon just mended me that's good. He's not that clever, he's not Aemon. So I don't know why it's it's it's a red flag for me that they ever thought that, but I thought that was in line with Aegon's character because he just does not think um before he does anything. And I think it's worth noting that the Aegon scenes that we will entirely made up for the show because in the book it's it's a mystery where he went.

SPEAKER_01 37:25

They they show up somewhere all of a sudden.

SPEAKER_00 37:27

Um yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:28

We

Lord Ormund

SPEAKER_01 37:29

mentioned Orman, and I forgot to mention this little little um quirkiness he had. So he gets the letter, the sniffing. Is he so posh and so like snooty that he has to sniff this fancy perfume before he can like talk to a messenger? So the message was so it was from Allison. Allison, and it's a message that changed right the orders from Eamon, right? Because Eamon wanted Orman to hurry up and get to King's Landing. The Raven said, like, you don't have to come, you can just stay. So I think that was Allison's part of trying to get our Bernard back to King's Landing with no opposition. But I thought that was just funny to see him like basically. I don't wanna I'm gonna touch this letter, but I don't want to smell it because you look dirty and I'm very clean.

SPEAKER_00 38:20

But I that's what I how I like.

SPEAKER_01 38:25

I'm surprised he didn't have like uh a sanitizing lotion next to him once he touched the letter.

SPEAKER_00 38:32

I actually kind of gathered two things from that scene, that echwork of of Ormond. Um one of them definitely being that whole thing that you just said where he just kind of sees the stinky, dirty messenger and just takes a sniff because he's too bougie. And also I want to say we don't know much about Ormond from the book, so my assumption was that they're kind of maybe trying to paint him as like this bougie knight that you know needs to sniff in a nice perfume in the middle of this camp that they're in and doesn't, you know, he hasn't seen regular battle, so that's why he he he did that. Um but I also saw, after seeing all this and gathering this conclusion, that there's another episode, uh sorry, another still of Ormond in a future episode where he seems to be in a normal looking place, sniffing that same thing. So maybe they're gonna show him as some sort of substance addict. I don't know, but um, it's gonna be interesting to see, to see that. I mean, it's worth noting also that he's the head of High House High Tower right now, because his father, Otto's um older brother, passed away off-screen last season, and they mentioned that Ormond is now in power. So it'll be interesting to see um if maybe Orm uh sorry, Otto's dealings with Alison and everything kind of had an effect on him. Maybe they kind of resented each other and he turned to that. I don't know. I guess that's something I keep an eye out for.

SPEAKER_01 39:48

I completely forgot about Otto because we see him in the season finale, and we don't know, he was just like they open up something and he's just there, like like he was like locked up somewhere. Like, how is he gonna affect maybe when he comes back into he sings into King's Landing, and maybe he's the one that changes Allison's mind to hey, we can't have Renner. You know what I mean? Maybe he's the one, he's the catalyst to change Allison and then but actually

Battle of the Gullet

SPEAKER_01 40:15

you know what? I think we've talked for like an hour and we haven't even gotten to the battle of the color with I mean we we talked about it a bit at the beginning. We talked about an actual like talk about the sea battle that took place. Um, again, it's the biggest sea battle we've seen in the West of Rossi franchise. Uh, we see a little sea battle, I think, in season eight, with Daenerys coming in with her dragon getting killed. To me, the standout of the battle was Lohar. Uh the performance by Abigail Thorne. I felt she was a little bit cartoonish in the season two finale, like they introduced her, but here she felt more grounded, like a badass commander who they all respected, and she was the first one to like get into the charge to attack. So, and I I love to see her hatred for Corla. She's like, This man has been the cause of so much death in my for my people. Like, I need to figure this out, I need to kill him. And Jason Lannis says, Oh, this is not the part of the deal. You have she's like, I don't care about your stupid deal. I want Corless, I want the sea snake. So that was really good to see. And the fact that she wanted to humiliate Corless and burn down and and uh what is it called? Um take uh high tide or or drift mark was was I I like to see that. I know it sounds silly, the hatred in somebody's eyes. Uh it's just the the the performance it was really good. That's what I'm trying to say.

SPEAKER_00 41:50

I thought that Lohar was like, I mean, not that great. I just think, yeah, it was to me it was still a bit cartoonish for season one. A bit less, but um still a bit uh cartoonish.

SPEAKER_01 42:05

I think there's something off with the writing perhaps with that character, just because it wasn't as over the top as this the the finale of last season. Yeah, but I think it was it was just a better better performance, I thought. And just the coreless and and uh Alan, you know, drinking and and all that stuff was good. Like, like we don't really see the the ships battling, we just see the main the two main uh ships, which is Bitch Fist, which is pretty funny. Um this is for the TV show, and then we have the ship, the queen that never was, which was dedicated to Rainice. I at first I'm like, okay, they're gonna just battle a lot, and then the the scene that I guess that made it okay was trying to get through that little tunnel, not tunnel, but a little channel with all the low tide and you know Coreless taking over, and I'm making that bad joke to my oh, that's why they call him Lord of the Tides, as he knows how to maneuver. So I wasn't like I I thought it was good. I I didn't think it was like amazing or anything like that. Um, I I think when we have the dragons flying around and Sheep Stealer going crazy and just killing everybody, that's when you see most of the ships and and most of the action of the of the battle. But other than that, like it was fine. Corless is thrown from the boat and Alan kills Lohar at the end, which I thought was a good death, good death scene. Corless falling from the ship or or in the water coming up shore reminded me of Davos in the Blackwater when he the ship blows up and he goes

Time Magazine ranked the best battles in GOT universe

SPEAKER_01 43:45

into the sea. Uh let me ask you a quick question because I saw I think Time magazine or some kind of did you see it?

SPEAKER_00 43:52

No, I saw the like the posts, but I didn't see the list. Like I couldn't see the ranking.

SPEAKER_01 43:57

So they had the battle of the Gullah at number six. Yeah, they had the loot train attack with Daenerys and the the Thraki at number nine. I mean and they had Hard Home at number seven. So they had the Battle of the Gullet above Hard Home.

SPEAKER_00 44:15

I think that's maybe like recency bias. Like they're just so impressed, I guess, by this episode, or just like and like enjoyed it so much that they kind of gave it a high ranking, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 44:25

The biggest one that I saw, I'm like, what are we doing? Is that they had the trial of the seven at number three above the black the battle of Blackwater.

SPEAKER_00 44:36

Oh no.

SPEAKER_01 44:37

Rooks rest, all that. That should be like six or seven. Hey, hey, hey. And then number two is the battle of Castle Black, which is the penultimate episode of season four when the Wildlings come to attack uh Castle Black. That's a great episode. That's a great battle. And then Battle of the Bastards is number one. But I just think having this battle, the gullet so high above hard home and the loot train attack is not less no. I don't think so. Maybe we'll do that in a future episode, like really dig deep and think about these battles and go put them in their proper place.

SPEAKER_00 45:10

But I agree with you. Um usually I don't know if I I don't think I mentioned this at all, but what I did for season two, and what I kinda almost did for season three, was before the season premieres, I wrote down my predictions for each episode. So I did that for season two, and I obviously thought that this would be something we would see at the end, very end of season two. But um now with season uh three, uh what I wrote was episode one, the battle of the gut, um like purely, that's it. I literally thought that we would get a bit of all the other people and then get mostly the battle of the gutted. So I thought we would get the battle of Blackwater type of of um.

SPEAKER_01 45:53

How about let's make a let's make a prediction now for the finale. You think we're gonna see the God's eye in the finale? Or is that for next season?

SPEAKER_00 46:04

Oh my god, no. Uh next season.

SPEAKER_01 46:06

Next season? Okay.

SPEAKER_00 46:07

Yeah. They can't.

SPEAKER_01 46:12

I think it has to be the season.

SPEAKER_00 46:14

Not the season.

SPEAKER_01 46:15

You can't prolong that to the next season. It has to be. That that would be a great finale because people would be like thinking about that for two years. Because it won't come out.

SPEAKER_00 46:25

Why not? Maybe, maybe. But I mean, because I'm thinking of what they're going to lose. The other characters that are going to maybe be affected, but I don't know. That's a bit it's a bit big, but I I guess. No, you're right. Thinking about what's coming next, I th I don't know. We're short on time. They can't leave us with eight episodes per season. No. Ugh.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

Yeah, so let me um we actually had a question from Caden on this recripping. He was not a question, he just had a little comment. I said, These wild auto left field kisses feel like I'm watching Incest Love Island. I would just say I never watched Love Island, so I don't know. Do you watch that show?

SPEAKER_00 47:05

Neither have I. No, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 47:06

Okay, so I'm gonna take it at your word, Caden.

SPEAKER_00 47:09

All I know is UK, US, if there's anything else. I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 47:12

Um, yeah, so I'm just gonna trust you there. All right,

S3 EP1 Rating

SPEAKER_01 47:16

how about about your rating for episode um eight eight out of ten?

SPEAKER_00 47:22

Do you think it's too high? Too low.

SPEAKER_01 47:26

No, I I for all the ranting and raving that I did, I have a higher score than you.

SPEAKER_00 47:33

I know eight maybe is too low for the Battle of the Guts. Let me give it an eight point three.

SPEAKER_01 47:37

Just because I see what went into, I'm gonna give the production give the rating a little bit higher just because of just the production and all that. I don't I can't give it a nine. I'm gonna cheat and just do eight point eight. I think currently in IMDB is a nine point three. Uh yeah, so that's still pretty good, you know what I mean. It's a better premiere than season two. I I think we gave it a low, I gave a lower score to season two premiere.

SPEAKER_00 48:09

Oh, did we mention that like there's drums? Do you want to mention that there's drums at the beginning of all?

SPEAKER_01 48:13

Oh, yes, yes, yes. We almost forgot about the opening, the theme, and the opening sequence. It's pretty much the same. There's a little bit of a slight change to the tapestry work, uh, but I did like the slight tweak to the theme because it sounds more like a you're marching towards battle, and this is when the Dance

Theme Drums And Sign Off

SPEAKER_01 48:35

of Dragons starts, and you hear that the drums, and you then it sounds awesome. Like I had my volume up with the surround sound, and when it started, I'm like, oh my gosh, this is this is pretty cool. I thought it was gonna be a bigger change, but I think that's pretty much it, right? The drums. That being said, thank you all for listening to our 87th episode of Dancing with Dragons and our review analysis of the season three premiere of Hosta the Dragon. To keep up on when we'll be recording and when we'll be releasing our episodes, reviewing the rest of season three. Follow us on Instagram at dancing with underscore dragons. There you'll find the link to all our podcast platforms. Once again, thank you, and we'll catch you next time when we are reviewing episode two of season three of House of the Dragon. Peace out.