Three Years of Dancing with Dragons

Three years of Dancing with Dragons Podcast somehow flew by, and it has us thinking about the exact moments that turned Game of Thrones from “a show we tried once” into a world we never really left. We look back at how we found Westeros, what it felt like to fall into George R.R. Martin’s universe for the first time, and why A Song of Ice and Fire still sparks better arguments than almost anything else on TV.

Transcript

Welcome And Anniversary Milestones

SPEAKER_01 0:13

Welcome back everyone to Dancing with Dragons, your go-to podcast in Game of Thrones, House of the Dragon, and Access to Seven Kingdoms and everything else relates to George R.R. Martin's world of a song of ice and fire. Today's episode is a special one because somehow we officially reached our three-year anniversary on this podcast. Yay! Yes. And weirdly enough, it almost lines up with the 15-year anniversary of Game of Thrones, which feels very weird and cool to say out loud. Um our first episode dropped on May 11th, 2023. And while we're a little late celebrating its property on this on the podcast, and with an episode, Tony and I were trying to sign our schedules. It's not too far off, at least, from the 15-year anniversary of the Game of Thrones pilot, which aired on April 17th, 2011. So two years of the podcast and 15 years of Game of Thrones time really, really flies by. Thank you for listening. Um, we love talking about this world, and if you're listening, that means that you love it as well. And I'm just glad that we were able to create this space that unites us with our love for George's world. So, with that being said, let's get into it and let me pass the mic to Tony. I feel like I just talked a lot. And Tony, how are you? How are you reflecting on two years of the podcast?

SPEAKER_00 1:47

Well, I say we did a better job than we did last year, because last year we didn't uh record our anniversary episode for like a month after.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

And then our first anniversary, we didn't do it till like past season one, season two of House of the Dragon. So it was like September. Like we were so we were so like focused on House of the Dragon, like season one recap. We analyzed every episode and went straight into season two, and we kind of just forgot it. We just put it in the back burner, and then we got to it. So maybe next year we'll do it right on the day.

SPEAKER_01 2:23

We'll try.

SPEAKER_00 2:24

We'll try. We'll try to remember because sometimes you're so like, oh yeah, it seems like the days go quicker and you're busier and you just keep forgetting that. Oh, yeah, by the way, you know, but it's only like three weeks until House of the Dragons season three drops. I know, I know getting closer and closer and closer, and just going back to your question about Game of Thrones and and our anniversary and kind of how we started this journey together.

How Tony Discovered Westeros

SPEAKER_00 2:51

I I wanted to just give you a little story that I think I shared in our first episode. I don't remember, it's been so long. Uh, but for those uh who don't know or are listening for the first time, I personally uh Game of Thrones fell into my lap, like literally. So back in uh 2011, I had foot surgery and which required me to be laid out for like four months. I couldn't put any weight on my my left foot. And I go, cool, this is gonna be a little vacation. I could watch TV, I could binge before binging became a mainstream word. Uh, I think I binged like Frasier in like two weeks, which was like 11 seasons of TV, you know, 20 episodes a season. I don't don't judge, just we're just listening here.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

No, not judging, not judging.

SPEAKER_00 3:38

Not judging because watching 240 episodes of a sitcom and it it's pretty pretty bad. But anyway, uh after that, you know, you get tired of watching TV, you're laying down, and I kind of started reading books on the side. And I had a friend of mine who was a very hardcore fan, he read the books in the 90s, he started reading them back in the day, and he told me about the show. He said, Hey, have you watched the show yet? And I said, No, I haven't watched it. I don't I didn't know what he was talking about. He he then tells me, Don't watch the show yet. Here, I'm gonna give you the books. So he transferred his books into my iPad. So it was it wasn't like a traditional book, like you tap on the your iPad and it comes. This was like a PDF. So I had to keep scrolling, it they had no page numbers, they had no whatever. You just so I I read the first one, and then for Father's Day, I got season one of Game of Thrones on Blu-ray. So we watched that, loved it, obviously. So after season one, I watched, I read the next four books before season two was released. So by season two of yeah, I I have read everything because I was already laid up, and I you know what? I have nothing else to do. I just kept reading, reading, reading, reading, reading. For me, what hook me into this world was more the politics and the strategy. More for me, the characters, like Tyrion. I'm talking about book characters, not not the TV show. Tyrion, John, and Daenerys, and because John is so interesting in the book, you know. And yeah, let me just pause and say that I still want to applaud you because now you're in the fifth book, and I was teasing you for so long that you hadn't even read the first one, and then you did like a binge.

SPEAKER_01 5:23

No, no, I hadn't read the second one. I hadn't read the second one.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

Yeah, yeah. And you binge read like two, three, four, and now you're kind of back to like, oh, I haven't read the first, the fifth one, which is fine. Yeah, I'm proud of you for just getting through the first four, so you were good for that. But but you know how the the the character, the book characters are much different. Like Arya is much much more interesting. Bran is such a great character in the book. You have characters like Jamie Lannister, who you're just hating, and then in how George writes his characters, you realize that he created a world that everyone is fighting like their own battle between um like honor, survival, love, legacy, all that stuff. The biggest reason it means so much uh is the conversations I would have. I could have endless conversations, even when the show was uh was was in its peak. I would go to work or talk with people on the side, like, oh, did you watch this? This is you know, have your own little theories, and you would debate the morality of your favorite characters. Oh, it's okay though, because we love her, we love him. It's because we can we could set aside their atrocities, and you're thinking about in this fantasy world, and you debate like like sacrifice the the human nature of people, and you can argue that or just have a friendly conversation. You know, Westeros lives in that great area, and we love that, and that's why this podcast uh means a lot to me because it is a place where we can celebrate together with the with the fans, with the listeners, and every theory, like every breakdown, every debate is like uh it comes from a genuine love of the world that changed like you know, storytelling and on TV. And like I haven't read every fantasy book ever. I I'm sure there are people who read everything and they're like, wait a minute, what about this? I'm just focused on this right here. So by the end of the day, Westeros feels timeless to me. We can go back to Aegon's Conquest, we go to the Knight of the Seven Kingdoms, we go through all these different eras, and it just feels the same. It's it's brutal, it's beautiful, tragic, unpredictable, and it's just like nothing else we've I have experienced before in in art when it comes to books or TV.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

That's so

How Minwa Fell For The World

SPEAKER_01 7:45

cool. I think I knew most of like that story. I don't know if I knew about the Frasier part before, but um, like I knew I knew everything else. And um you gave a little spoiler, a little bit of how of my journey to Game of Thrones, which is that I was late to the books. Um, but that's fine. Yeah, I think most of our listeners know that by now. I was I'll just say my story and then jump off what you said. Actually, actually learned about the world. Okay, okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:09

Before you begin, it was one of the okay one of the funniest and genuine moments in my other podcast, because I invited you to talk about um I think it was House of the Dragon, like episode five.

SPEAKER_02 8:23

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

Yeah, I think yeah, that's when they go to um Driftmark. And um, I said, Oh, so what's your favorite book? Because I just figured that you read all the books, you know, Arab Khaleesi, everything about Game of Thrones, Song of Rise of Fire, and you so sweet, you're like, Well, actually, I never read the book.

SPEAKER_01 8:45

Have a confession, yeah. Yeah, um, that was I was so nervous, but I was like, oh my god, he's gonna ask me about Game of Thrones. Like, I have to, I have to come clean, I have to say that not that I ever lied, but I was like, I have to like expose this this this secret about myself, which is that I never I hadn't read like beyond said the first book. So when you said that I was like, ah I have to I have to reveal my my secret, but it's okay. I mean I own it, it's fine. And I never denied it, you know, but yeah, so never read the books. Um the way that I got into the world of Game of Thrones was I was in high school. I remember I started Game of Thrones, like I'd watched it. I watched a bit of it, I think the first five or ten minutes on my laptop, and I got freaked out by the White Walkers and what they did in the beginning, and I I think it was the White Walkers, yeah. I just said no, this isn't for me.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

Yeah, because you safely assume this is gonna be a horror like this. This is gonna be they're gonna be a main part of the story. I don't wanna really see this gory horror show, and then you know exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:50

And if only we knew. So yeah, I I turned it off and forgot about it for a few months, I think. And then my brother out of nowhere, I don't know, we're just talking about TV shows, and he said, Did you watch Game of Thrones? And I said, No, I I tried, it seemed it seemed too scary for me. It seemed not up my audience. He said, No, we'll give it a go. He said, just watch. He said he said, try, you'll you'll like it. And I was like, I don't know. And he said, try, try, you like it, you like it. And then I gave it a go. Pushed past the first few minutes and actually watched, and I fell in love with it and I couldn't stop binge watching it. Um, I think at that point the three seasons were out, so I was a bit slow. I watched season one very fast and then watched season two, and then it had been a while until I watched season three, I think. Season four was airing. We went on holiday, I think, like on vacation. And in that week I said I'm gonna catch up on Game of Thrones. Season three, while season four was airing, just because I I I felt this, you know, we're we're on a holiday. There's there's a lot of time for me to watch this. I'm gonna catch up. But the episode that had aired and I still hadn't gotten to the Red Wedding was Joffrey's death. And I just woke up and saw Instagram and I saw someone post Joffrey's dead body with the caption, finally. I'll never forget that post my entire life. And I just felt so shocked and so disappointed. Like not disappointed, like I was happy, but at the same time disappointed myself for not catching up. So again, like Joffrey's deck was spoiled on me. And then a couple of days later, I had wanted to clarify something about um Rob's Ark. So I went on Wikipedia or something and I wrote Rob Stark and then I said Rob Stark dead. And I was like, What? So I knew that Rob was gonna die, or like I had I that was I wasn't so sure. I was like, you know, you never know. I was trying to deny it, but then I ended up, you know, catching up and um seeing the red wedding was devastated. And then yeah, I just watched Game of Thrones uh watched started in high school, it ended when I was on my final year of university, which is really cool. And then a couple of years later we started this podcast. But before we jump to why we started the podcast, I want to talk about why I fell in love with it the same way that you said, um, why you fell in love with it. And for me, I think you said it was the characters that drew you in. I think, but for me, it was, but I think at first it was the world. I was just so intrigued by like the vastness and the imagination of George R. Martin. And it just felt like something I could immerse myself in. It was so gosh. It is his world is just so rich, so detailed. And it was easy for me, you know, as like a teenager in in high school to escape into this fancy world. It was something that I needed. And I just fell in love with uh with the world and eventually, you know, Daenerys and I and and the rest of them as well, of course. And I just felt that in a way their stories and their arcs, after falling in love with the world and their stories, they kind of I don't know, like I don't want to say seen, but I felt inspired by them after loving George's world so much. I just they they resonated with me, they left an impact on me. I think Danny, Arya, and John the most at that time. Um, when you said that one of the things that you loved about it is that you could have conversations with people, that's something that I loved as well. I remember being in arts class and talking to my friend about it. She's the one that told me about um the theory that Johnson was actually targeting. And she's like, Minwa, I have to tell you. And she put me aside in arts class and told me this. It blew my mind, and then she's like, Watch, watch this on YouTube today. And I said, Okay, I will. And then um I just would look up so many theories and discussions online, and then I went to my brother and I wanted to have these discussions with him because other than that, girl, he was the only one I knew that watched Game of Thrones, I think. So I went and told him and he said, Minwa, I don't want to know any of this. He said, I don't want to talk about Game of Thrones this way. And he wasn't in it or like as immersed in it as I was. So um then that led me to start my Instagram account, the Arab Khalicy, and it was just a space where I talk about Game of Thrones, um, and like movies and TV shows. Uh, most of you might be following it, but um, that was what I started because I just loved talking about Game of Thrones. And then when you suggested that we start this podcast, and when you invited me onto the real spotlight to talk about House of the Dragons, I was like, of course, why not? Not that not at the beginning, I was hesitant about the podcast, but I eventually said, you know what, I just love talking about it. So of course, I was hesitant, I was nervous, but then I realized I missed it. I have missed Game of Thrones and I want to talk about it, and I love this world, so why not? And House of the Dragons earring, so I'll have a new world to talk about, like a new cast of characters, a new new storylines, new arcs. Like it's gonna be it's gonna be fun, so why not?

SPEAKER_00 14:17

Um and that's before we knew about you know the Knight of the Seven Kingdoms and all the movies, yeah, these new shows, and um, like I said, we're gonna have content to talk about for I mean forever for the next few years. Uh but I wanted to ask you really quick. Yeah, you remember watching the show at first? Um, were was Daenerys the and and John and Arya the ones you gravitated the most instantly?

SPEAKER_01 14:44

It was not Danny. I don't know if you know this, it was not Daenerys. Like it took the whole of season one for her to be my favorite. Like at the end of season one when the dragons were won, I was like, wait. Yeah, I've been sleeping on her. I and I remember I think re-watching her scenes or something like that. Um so it wasn't definitely not Danny. The first characters for me were um John, Ned, but more no more Ned than John. Um but Ned and Arya, I think. Aria I loved a lot. Because she's like the tomboy, and that's how I felt kind of growing up. I was more of an Arya than a Sansa, you know, as a kid. Um and I love Ned, and obviously I was so shocked when he died. I was like, no, they can't. Like this is gonna be a dream episode. So okay, so I have a question.

Pivotal Moments That Changed Everything

SPEAKER_01 15:28

Do you have a specific moment in the show where you knew that this was uh going to be something different for you, or a moment where um it became specialist to you, like a moment where it's just it was pivoted for you?

SPEAKER_00 15:39

Well, it's different because like I read everything first. So, like in Okay, in the book then. In the book, okay. I mean, obviously Ned's death changed everything. Uh and I and I figured after this nobody was safe, which as a reader, you're like, okay, I'm on the edge of my seat now. Like anything can happen. Having Daenerys with the dragons, like, because you're you're learning through the first book that you know dragons have been gone for 160 years, and that's they're now like it's a myth, it's a legend now. Then the excitement of dra new dragons being born. Like, how is this gonna come into play? Back to the pivotal moment, that's hard because it's kind of like um well, a couple things. It it all involves deaths. Like the Red Wedding obviously changed it, but also I think the the bigger one was Taiwan's murder. Tywin's because that that completely changed the future of King's Landing and the Lannisters, because if he doesn't die, um, I think he just becomes a king. And even though he's like evil, I think he he is smart enough to he knows how to rule because he he did it for 20 years as hand of the king for the mad king, and he was so successful at it. He in a weird way, um, it would have been like like the realm would have been fine. I guess well, again, not really, because it still would have been all out war, it wouldn't have been the chaos that came with Cersei. Like Ty Tywin would have gotten rid of the sparrows in a second. Like he wouldn't he wouldn't have put up with that. Like, there's no sparrows, even even with Joffrey, Joffrey. That's that's when you that's when we miss Joffrey. We're like, oh, this comment is so dumb. I think those are the pivotal moments for me. Um, and then again, we don't know what's gonna happen after this fifth book. I mean, we have Arya with her face changing and the faceless man. You have Brienne, you have Jamie, lives in their lives are in the balance with Lady Stoneheart out there with the Brotherhood. Like there's so many little things that we have to wait for, and hopefully we'll get them. You know, hold our breath. We've been saying that. Yeah, I've been saying that for 15 years now. I read an article in 2016 that it was for sure gonna come out, and we were ready for it, and then no, the delay, and then then we never know, we never know. Yeah, yeah. It's just one of those. And I feel bad for him because he you know he keeps getting asked a question, and and I keep hold holding out hope that he's just you know trolling us, and one day he's gonna be like, Here you go, last two books.

SPEAKER_01 18:15

You know, that's what I said, that's my theory.

SPEAKER_00 18:17

Like I maybe he's trying to write the last two at the same time, you know, like he did uh Feast of Crows, and you know, because they're basically the same book. I mean not the same book, but they're happening at the same time.

SPEAKER_01 18:29

I honestly could see that happening. Like, why not? I it's something George might put. You never know. Um for me, I think my pivotal moment would be Ned's death as well, just because the first episode what got me to like I think push through was the the moment where um Ned Sarkby heads the the deserter from the Night to Watch. I was like, okay, wait, it's getting interesting. So that was, I guess, the first push. Um but eventually I think what I mean solidified it for me as well that this was something different and it's interesting and not the acting thing I've seen before was Ned Desarks because I who would expect it's like watching Harry Potter and Harry dying in the first book, you know, it's like how was this happening? So yeah, for me, yeah, that that was that as well.

Advice For Starting A Podcast

SPEAKER_00 19:17

So I have some questions here that I got sent from by friends, and they're like, you don't have to mention uh mention us by name. Just here are some questions. So here's some interesting questions they sent me, which I thought were pretty good. Um, and I'll ask you, then we can both answer. Um what advice would you give to people wanting to start a podcast?

SPEAKER_01 19:38

Ooh, um well three years after starting this podcast, I think um it honestly just doesn't take much, just figure out what you kind of want to talk about. And just start, don't overthink it. But also something that I'd say is important is trying to more than just finding what you want to talk about, you should at least find your voice, see what resonates with you, see what doesn't resonate with you, and then uh go from there because I think anyone can just uh pick up a mic, but what would make uh your podcast make is ultimately you and having your own distinctive voice. So develop your own um opinions on things. Ask yourself why, for example, if you're gonna talk about movies or TV shows, why do you like this character? Why do you not? Why do you like this show more than that show? Um, once you begin asking yourself those questions, uh you'll be able to have a better understanding of your own tastes, your own voice, and uh be distinctive. I think that that's something that I would I would advise anyone in any uh before pursuing any like um venture. So I because I think that it's just that important. And trust your gut and just start after you've developed your own voice. That's something that I would say. What about you?

SPEAKER_00 20:48

Well, I think that um my first podcast with me and Mania, we we kind of it was like a broad podcast, like subjects. Like we were like, we could just discuss anything. And I think if I had to do it again, I would tell her, let's let's focus on one topic. Because when you have such a broad scope, you then for for us, it was like, okay, what do we talk about? What is popular? What is what are people gonna listen to? There's so many things going on. Do we talk about Game of Thrones? Do we talk about Marvel? Do we talk about DC? Talk about horror, you know what I mean? Like it was just like and it and it got exhausting after a while. I think with this, we have such a clear vision that okay, we're either gonna talk about episodes, we could talk about theories, we could talk about uh models, we could talk about uh the lore, you know what I mean? Like it's we have have it all right in front of us. So I mean I think it's easier. So I'd say focus on one topic, and if you want to do like offhand, like we did a Harry Potter episode, we did that was the first time we ever did something that was not Game of Thrones, and that that would be fine. And so I would say if you have a a one subject you're you're passionate about. Do that. Also, make sure you have time to do it. Make sure the like we figure out. It's this is kind of hard because Minois 10 hours ahead of me. With Mania, she was always either on the same time or like an hour behind me. So it wasn't it wasn't a big deal. We could record. Hey, do you want to record at 8 at night? Do you want to record in the morning? Like with you, I have to have a it has to be a specific time. Like make sure you have a structure that you go, okay, this is what we're gonna do. This is how we're going to record, practice editing before you just start.

SPEAKER_01 22:35

Oh yeah, that's Tony's expertise.

SPEAKER_00 22:37

Do like a practice. Um, me and and and mania did like a um what is it called? A dry run. We did a we recorded an episode and I like edited it, edited it, however we say that. Um, and we kind of figured, okay, let's do this, let's do that. Um, so after we started our one, I I kind of already had almost a year and a half of experience, so I we didn't really have to do that. Um and then the editing since we've started, I started doing this in 2022. It's gotten easier and easier for me. So not that I'm saying patting myself in the back, but I gotta tell you, when I first started the my first podcast, it would take me days to like edit because I was just so slow at it. And now I can like that's fine.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

I mean, it's you were you were starting.

SPEAKER_00 23:27

Like I then for some reason I go, why haven't I looked up shortcuts? And I went on a YouTube and go, shortcut garage ban, and I go, I felt such like a buffoon that I didn't do that from the beginning because it cut my time in like 70%. Like I it was it was crazy. Talk about a topic you're passionate about, make sure that topic has endless content, like you're never gonna run out, be like, okay, well, we're done. This is our last podcast, we have nothing else to talk about. Uh so but anyway,

Dream Guests We’d Actually Book

SPEAKER_00 24:00

all right. Uh, next question is which character do you think would be the best podcast guest for our show?

SPEAKER_01 24:09

If we're just inviting any character, I'm assuming like we're pulling them out of Westeros, having them on our podcast, and we can ask them anything about the world of Westeros or just about themselves, I think I'd invite Varus onto the show. Um, someone would expect that I'd choose Danny or someone like Cersei, maybe who's very interesting as well, but um, or Jamie. But I just think I want I want the tea. I want to get the tea from Varus, and there's no consequences of him spitting the tea um to us because we're like from another world, you know, if that's that's not the case. Yeah. So why not? I want the tea from Verus.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

Hmm. I like that. Yeah, because you would get some nice little we could just press record and just let him do some monologues.

SPEAKER_01 24:52

Yeah, literally.

SPEAKER_00 24:54

I do want to say Tyrion, but I wanted to go a different route here. And hmm. That's really tough. Because I'm trying to think of every character right now in my head, and going, oh my god, who would be a great conversationalist? Who would know everything? Who would like maybe Olena Tyrell?

SPEAKER_01 25:14

Oh, that's a really good one. That's a really good one.

SPEAKER_00 25:18

She won't hold back on her hatred for everybody. All right, so that's pretty good. Um okay, this one right here is it's kind of in the same vein.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 25:30

What's your dream guest, alive or dead? Which is weird. I I know we want to say George R. Martin, but let's let that you know that's the Besides George. Yeah, besides George, who would you want?

SPEAKER_01 25:42

Um, well, I'm gonna say the obvious answer. Which is Amelia Clark. Yeah, I know Amelia Clark. I mean, are are we surprised? So yeah, Amelia Clark, but also actually someone that I would love to have on the show is the costume designer for Game of Thrones, Michelle Clapton. Um, I've heard her speak about you know her her process, and it's very interesting and very thoughtful. So um that's also clean next.

SPEAKER_00 26:07

This I don't know, this is kind of cheesy because he was only in the the show for one season, and people probably are sick of him, but I just love Pedro Pascal and interviews.

SPEAKER_01 26:17

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:18

But I guess we have I would want to pick somebody who was associated with the show for all eight seasons. And uh huh. You know, Peter Dinklish, he's he's kind of he's kind of a tough interview, like he doesn't really open up a lot, uh like Amelia. Um I think uh Nikolai Costawaldo when he was doing he's fun. He was doing his interviews with uh Brienne, what's her name? Gwendolyn Christina.

SPEAKER_01 26:47

Gwendolyn Christilla.

SPEAKER_00 26:48

Uh they're so good together. Um Jon Snow, uh, he's had some really good interviews, he's pretty funny.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:56

Jon Snow. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm gonna steal yours because I could watch Amelia do interviews all day. She's just fun. She's genuine, you know what I mean? Like she looks, it's not fake, and it's just she looks like a such a good-hearted person, you know what I mean? It's just and you can see it in her eyes. Her eyes, you know, eyes don't lie. It's all you know, that's what uh Tony Montana said in Scarface.

SPEAKER_01 27:19

It's it's all look at the eyes, they don't lie. They don't lie.

SPEAKER_00 27:22

Actually, you know what I wanted to do is to ask you some questions, and you're gonna ask me some questions for fun, just so I can get to know you better, even though I've known you for a while now, but maybe for the listeners to get to know

Red Flags And Modern Society Survival

SPEAKER_00 27:36

us. This one I thought of, so it's a two-part question, and it's going to be about red flags. And okay, is it a red flag if somebody hates a movie or show that you love?

SPEAKER_01 27:49

Okay, so the other way around is not a red flag. If they like something that I don't like, that's fine. I respect their opinion and I I hope that they can accept it. I don't like it. But if I love something and they hate it, that's your question. Like if I love something and they hate it, I would if I love something and they hate it. I think I could like say that it's fine, I could give it a pass. But it depends on how they talk about it and what their reasoning is sometimes. Like, for example, like I I like a lot of music, for example, people would consider girly, you know, like Tirus Weft and BTS. If they look down on that and belittle that, no. You're allowed not to like it, just don't belittle my interest. That's my opinion. Whether you're a friend, like an acquaintance, no matter who you are, I don't like people belittling other people's interests. But if you just don't like it, that's fine. You know, like I I like you you do you, I do me, and that's fine. Um, and I don't mind if if like someone likes something and I don't, you know. I don't know if I ever, I think I mentioned this a couple of times on the podcast. One of my best, best friends, she didn't watch Game of Thrones until way after it finished. And like she didn't get it, she wasn't into it at all. Then she fell in love with it and binge watched the entire thing. Um, I think in COVID. So uh I I it was fine. We respected one another's interests. As long as there's no bulletining or disrespect involved. That that's my the red flag is when there's disrespect involved. That's my my answer. What about you?

SPEAKER_00 29:22

I don't know, older, mature me, I don't really care. Um because as long as it's um constructive criticism of of it and not just like, oh, that's trash. It's yeah, yeah, it's garbage. Like that's to me, that's that's shows that you're not intelligent and you're just being a you're just being a troll. If I hate a show and people love it, I don't care. We can't be wasting our time uh hating on something that's so inconsequential like that. Um okay, so next question I have. Or do you have any questions for me? And we can go back and forth.

SPEAKER_01 29:58

I do. Um, I have a question um similar to how you had a um question that was semi-related to Game of Thrones. I have one that I considered kind of interesting, and honestly, I think we could do an entire half an episode on this, but we can just like leave it at this quick question for now. So, who from Game of Thrones has the dragon song, like a song of ice and fire, would survive modern society best? Like who would fit in the most in our world and who would fit in the least?

SPEAKER_00 30:26

Oh, I think well, I okay. So we gotta look at the people who were conniving and and and try to survive at all costs no matter what. Like a Littlefinger, Varis, you know, like a Tywin.

SPEAKER_01 30:40

Would they work would they survive in our world, you think, as well as they do in Westeros?

SPEAKER_00 30:45

If you just put them in and kind of give them a quick recap of what this world is, I I think they could figure it out. With if you gave them the same intelligence, because there's they're all they're all smart, and you and you sat them down and be like, okay, this is how the this world works. They'll they'll try to finagle a way to their way into power somehow. I I think those three would would would do well in this in this world. Uh who wouldn't do well, I guess like hot pie.

SPEAKER_01 31:18

Hot pie he'd be fine. He'd have his own bakery.

SPEAKER_00 31:21

Yeah, yeah. Okay. Um I guess it would be harder for like Davos, because he was uh, you know, for him, you know, he didn't he couldn't read and couldn't write and all those stuff, so it'd be harder for him to live in this world, especially if it were in 2026 where you have to rely on technology. Uh I think it would be hard for him. Uh that's a good one.

SPEAKER_01 31:44

We'll we'll come back to it. We'll come back to it another episode. As of now, I think that's for me what I'd say is that the characters that would be having a relatively like successful, happy life in our world would be the characters that are not so um Game of Thronesy, they're not so medieval, or they'd be fine just living a quiet life. So I actually thought someone that could be maybe happier in our world than he was in Westeros as Ned Stark, just because John's John's parentage was weighing on him his entire life, and that wouldn't weigh on him as much if it was 2026. You know, I don't think it would be as big of a deal, and he doesn't have to like deal with the weight of of the realm and being the hand. He could just, I think he would be happy chilling in a cabin in Scotland and and having his family and his dogs, and he'd just he would be living a peaceful life. So he was the one that came to mind. I also think someone like I would love to just do an episode on this as well, because I have uh ideas of where all these people would be. Ned's my answer for now, but I do agree with it finger because he came to mind as well. And as for the worst character, the first person that came to mind if we've just kept him in 2026, is Aegon the Conqueror, because what would he do? You know, it's Aegon the Conqueror, and honestly, maybe Danny as well, because like I don't know, it just feels like a not non-modern story that she has, and I would be interested to think about how she'd be.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

Uh I have uh my next one is it's kind of morbid, but you know, whatever.

Last Meals And Escaping To Hobbiton

SPEAKER_00 33:19

Uh, what would be your last meal on earth if you knew let's say in 40 years, 50 years, you know, they're like, okay, today's your last day. We'd prepare anything you want, just let us know. What would it be?

SPEAKER_01 33:31

Would you say 20 years? Hopefully, many more for me. I'm only 28.

SPEAKER_00 33:34

No, no, no. I said 50, 60, whatever. Okay, okay. I know 20, 50.

SPEAKER_01 33:39

If I had that, like if I had to make that decision and I knew that that was it, I think I'd just go all out because why not? You know, like why not have a bunch of dishes that I like? You know, like if I or do I have to choose just one?

SPEAKER_00 33:53

Uh well, I I mean, I guess it'll be a little bit cheating if you said I want pizza, Chinese, Italian. Okay, fine.

SPEAKER_01 34:01

Fine. I think I'd go simple and honesty. So childish of me. I just have a Natella sandwich.

SPEAKER_02 34:09

Oh my goodness.

SPEAKER_01 34:13

I mean I don't know, that just sounds so good.

SPEAKER_00 34:19

I think I would have what we call in New York is is what we do is we do uh white rice and uh corned beef. We call that cannery, and uh you put what you do is how you prepare it. You do like uh tomato sauce and you put it in there, you put some seasoning on there, and you and you put it with the the the white rice, the cannery. I'll send you a picture the next time I I make it so you can see what it is. And a slice of avocado. That's something that I could probably eat every day, but I couldn't because it's not really that healthy. But it's something that would that will satisfy me, but okay, I'm good. And maybe uh maybe a slice of chocolate cake and vanilla ice cream and a Coke Zero.

SPEAKER_01 35:07

Coke Zero, yeah. I have Coke Zero as well. Coke Zero and Nutella sandwich.

SPEAKER_00 35:12

You just threw me off with that Nutella. That's kind of funny.

SPEAKER_01 35:16

Okay, so I have one more question for you. Um we talked about pulling care like characters from Westeros out of their world and putting them in our world, but which fictional world would you actually want to live in? Like from all the the fantasy or fictional worlds, if you could pick one. Just to be teleported tomorrow, which one would you choose?

SPEAKER_00 35:37

Um every time I watch Lord of the Rings, The Fellowship of the Ring, and then the beginning of the movie.

SPEAKER_01 35:45

Yes, that's my answer.

SPEAKER_00 35:47

Frodo is just sitting next on a tree and he's reading, and it's so peaceful. I mean, that's that's the life you want to live. People just eat and drink, and um obviously without the the the orcs and doom, yeah, the impending doom. Uh a peaceful a peaceful hobbiton would would be my choice.

SPEAKER_01 36:10

Me too, honestly. I would love to live in the Shire and Hobbiton and just chill. That's my answer.

SPEAKER_00 36:17

Uh this one is a silly question here. Um, I see these um TikToks and they'll say, Would you rather do this or would would you rather do that? I know that you like to travel. Would you rather never have to pay for your vacations or holidays or be able to eat whatever you want with no consequences?

SPEAKER_01 36:39

Second one.

SPEAKER_00 36:40

The second one?

SPEAKER_01 36:41

Yeah, of course. Because if you think about this, it goes beyond just like the calories of it all. If you can just eat whatever you want without having any consequences, you also save yourself from like food poisoning, yeah, from from you know the tummy ache, from you know, nausea or allergies. It's just it's why not? You know, from like a bad, bad taste that just doesn't suit you. So like of course.

SPEAKER_00 37:07

I'm gonna do have my vacations paid for. Because I just I love to travel, I want to see the world. Um, yeah, I'm gonna do that because there's just a lot of places in my bucket list that I want to try uh see. We do

How We’d Rewrite Later Seasons

SPEAKER_00 37:23

have a question from Caden Understore Crippen. Thank you, Caden, for always sending us questions. He asked, How would each of you rewrite season six through eight of Game of Thrones? Here's the thing I'll give you a couple examples or a couple of things I wrote down. This is a really good question, and I think I'm we're gonna take this question and make it like a series of episodes because I think with season eight alone, we could probably do like five episodes just rewriting. So I'm just gonna rattle off a couple a few things that I wrote down for season six and what I would have done differently. Uh so I would have kept John's resurrection, obviously. Okay, but I would have had John come back darker, but not evil.

SPEAKER_02 38:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 38:12

Uh he would have been emotionally changed. Like the death affected him psychologically, which it should have. He would have become like uh more colder, less idealistic. Like the resurrection isn't treated like a superhero moment, it's more like trauma. Uh you know what I mean? Like it would have given him more depth in this character. Um, I would have had Sansa become more politically active much earlier instead of just simply surviving. Um, she began learning how to you know influence the northern houses and quietly outplay people. And and the biggest one that I that I'll say for now and then I'll save the rest for the episode we'll do in the future. Uh the the explosion of the Scept would have had consequences for certain things.

SPEAKER_01 38:58

Yeah, it should have, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:59

Um the show I would have shown like the riots in King's Landing, uh, the fear spreading across Westeros, like houses openly discussing rebellion, the faith uh becoming martyr figures. Like it shouldn't have been like, oh yeah, we're just gonna switch and now I'm the queen. It shouldn't have just happened that easy.

SPEAKER_01 39:19

I don't have anything just yet. I agree with what you said. If I'm being honest, I think I mentioned this before in the podcast for me. Like the timeline is so fuzzy, I I can't remember like what happened when. Um, so I can't give a clear answer now, but I agree with pretty much most of what you said. So um when we do come back to this question in more detail, I'll be more prepared just because I I'll try to review season six and seven and eight in depth. And but I agree, I think that even the Danny thing, she has to be mad, then at least start it sometime there. Yeah, or if not before, if not earlier.

SPEAKER_00 39:56

Yeah, and I think the madness should have not madness, just the her the change in character should have happened in that season seven, and the hookup with John would have never happened for me. Oh, yeah, that's such a it would have been just purely a platonic relationship, and it would have been um they bombed over like their conviction of doing what's right, you know. She wanted to do what's right. She could have done everything her way, and instead of she started listening to everybody else, and it just backfired tremensly for her.

Blind Ranking Ten GOT Characters

SPEAKER_00 40:34

Alright, so we're gonna try something new we've never done. I wanted to see how Minwa um reacts to this. It's kind of a blind ranking, so it's gonna be You're gonna get 10 characters, and I'll just say the the name of the character, and you're gonna tell me who where you place them in. You know, you have one through ten, and obviously one is your favorite, ten is your least favorite. Um, so here we go. Uh so first first one is Jon Snow.

SPEAKER_01 41:05

Oh, I'm gonna give him the third spot.

SPEAKER_00 41:08

Third spot, okay. Second character that popped up is Euron Greyjoy.

SPEAKER_01 41:14

Uh ten.

SPEAKER_00 41:15

Third character that popped up is Sansa Start. Two fourth character is Yara Greyjoy.

SPEAKER_01 41:23

Ninth place.

SPEAKER_00 41:24

Now we gotta be careful now because then you know if you keep putting those really. Okay. Okay, fifth character is Sam.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

Sam? Give him fifth place.

SPEAKER_00 41:37

Sixth character is Arya Stark.

SPEAKER_01 41:40

You know what? I'm gonna my my I have a feeling you're not gonna include Danny.

SPEAKER_00 41:44

Well, I don't know. It's it's popping up randomly.

SPEAKER_01 41:48

I oh you're you're randomizing the characters. I'm doing random place.

SPEAKER_00 41:52

No, it's not me giving you. So I'm just doing it.

SPEAKER_01 41:54

Oh, okay. I and I thought you were like trying to trick me.

SPEAKER_00 41:57

No, no, no, no.

SPEAKER_01 41:58

Then I'm gonna give her fourth place. Sorry, I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00 42:00

I don't know if you can see you can't really see the character here. So next one is Ned Stark.

SPEAKER_01 42:06

I'll give him sixth, why not? Sixth, not first.

SPEAKER_00 42:12

We just heard you say that he was so influential and inspirational.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

Junior, I'm waiting for Daenerys.

SPEAKER_00 42:20

Next character is Ramsey Bolton.

SPEAKER_01 42:24

Oh my god, ninth. I'm so glad that he popped up. No, I would have first place and seventh place.

SPEAKER_00 42:31

Okay, next character is Littlefinger.

SPEAKER_01 42:34

Oh my god, seventh. Oh my god, who's gonna be my favorite?

SPEAKER_00 42:37

Next character is Nisande.

SPEAKER_01 42:41

Oh fine, she gets first, whatever.

SPEAKER_00 42:45

Do you want to do over? I'm gonna give you one one more one more uh try. One more person, one more person, like one more random one. But they have to be it had they have to go your number one spot.

SPEAKER_01 42:55

That's the only fine, fine, fine.

SPEAKER_00 42:58

Okay. Next person is going to be it's Joffrey, isn't it? No, it's the leader of the sparrows.

SPEAKER_01 43:06

Oh my god, that's so random.

SPEAKER_00 43:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:09

Ew, no. I was gonna keep Ari. I should have stressed in my instincts.

SPEAKER_00 43:13

The next one after that was Shay.

SPEAKER_01 43:15

Oh god.

SPEAKER_00 43:16

Then Shay after after Shay.

SPEAKER_01 43:18

Should I do the same for you? Oh god.

SPEAKER_00 43:23

Yeah. Yeah, you can.

SPEAKER_01 43:24

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 43:26

You know how to find it?

SPEAKER_01 43:27

We uh no, I have a list of characters I wrote for you. I thought I was gonna come up with them.

SPEAKER_00 43:31

Oh, okay. Well no, that's that's that's not fair because now you're gonna trick me.

SPEAKER_01 43:37

Fine. I'm gonna Google generator mix. Here we go. Oh my god, this is I found a good one. They use niche characters. Are you ready?

SPEAKER_00 43:46

Yeah, let me write let me write them down here.

SPEAKER_01 43:48

First person is Lysa Aaron.

SPEAKER_00 43:57

She's probably one of the most annoying characters on the Show annoying people. I just uh one that's season one, those those scenes with her were like nails on a chalkboard. Um I'll do nine.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

Next character is Rob Stark.

SPEAKER_00 44:15

Rob Stark? Um I'll do uh four.

SPEAKER_01 44:19

Next one is Lizzie Finger.

SPEAKER_00 44:21

Uh he's really good. Uh I'll do five.

SPEAKER_01 44:24

The next one is Torment.

SPEAKER_00 44:27

Uh he can be funny at times. Um very loyal to John. But is he like a top three? No. I'll do seven.

SPEAKER_01 44:38

Next one is Brendan Tully.

SPEAKER_00 44:40

Brendan Tully.

SPEAKER_01 44:42

The blackfish.

SPEAKER_00 44:44

He's one of those characters we wish had more screen time. Six. I know I'm gonna s I'm gonna regret that.

SPEAKER_01 44:51

Okay, you might. Next one is Jorah Mormons.

SPEAKER_00 44:55

I only have eight and ten left.

SPEAKER_01 44:57

What's one, two, and three?

SPEAKER_00 44:59

I don't have anything yet. I have four, five, six, seven, and nine. I don't want to put him at nine or eight. Because you're gonna give me really one bad ones for the next three. Uh reluctantly, I'm gonna put Jorah at number three.

SPEAKER_01 45:14

Next one is Sansa.

SPEAKER_00 45:17

Uh you know what? I put Sansa at two because I don't want to put it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:21

The next one is Hodor.

SPEAKER_00 45:23

Hodor. Oh, I can't put him at one though. I'm just uh damn it. Eight.

unknown 45:28

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 45:29

The next one is John Snow.

SPEAKER_00 45:31

Well, I'm gonna have to obviously put him at one because I can't put him at ten. Watch Sirian be the next one.

SPEAKER_01 45:40

The next one is Darina Harris.

SPEAKER_00 45:44

Okay, that's fine.

SPEAKER_01 45:45

That's fine.

SPEAKER_00 45:46

Yeah. Okay, that's that's not too bad. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:49

So you got a good one.

SPEAKER_00 45:51

Yeah. Well,

What’s Next And How To Support

SPEAKER_00 45:53

I think that's gonna be all for our 86th episode of the podcast. I think our next episode, we are still working on it. Uh, we're trying to get a guest, a surprise guest, hopefully. If not, we'll figure something out. But then a week before the season three premiere, House of the Dragon, we're going to upload a recap of season two. That's gonna be interesting. And also it's gonna be interesting what our thoughts are gonna be once season three is done. Is it gonna justify season two, season three? I know that us as book readers of Fire and Blood, we've gotta take that with a grain of salt now.

unknown 46:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:33

Because we don't know what they're doing, everything, because they're gonna change everything. I I saw some clips about battles or what's gonna be the last one, and maybe you know what I mean, like have Renera on a dragon or whatever.

SPEAKER_01 46:49

Or whatever.

SPEAKER_00 46:49

Yeah, yeah. Uh okay, so that's gonna be all for our three-year anniversary episode of Dancing with Dragons. Uh, thank you all for sticking with us through 86 episodes with our analysis of three seasons of Game of Thrones, two seasons of House of the Dragon, the first season of the Knight of the Seven Kingdoms. If you enjoyed this episode, follow us on Instagram, dancing with underscore dragons, or just search dancing with dragons. Like, subscribe, rate, and review. Five stars only, unless you're a Lannister. Uh tell a friend or enemy, which in the Westworlds might be the same thing. Until next time, peace out.