A Song of What-If and Fire

For our 76th episode of the podcast, we welcome back Shandra (Filmforager on IG), co-host of the Fellowship of the Mic podcast. Shan, Tony, and Minwa have fun discussing the What ifs of GOT season 3. What if Catelyn kept her promise to Jon? What if Theon escaped Ramsay? We rewire Season 3 and watch Westeros bend in new directions. Hear our boldest Red Wedding rewrites and the case for Lady Stoneheart. Listen now and tell us your favorite what‑if.

Chapters

• 0:00 Introduction to our 76th episode
• 0:19 Welcoming our guest Shandra
• 2:01 Netflix in charge of Game of Thrones?
• 18:24 New trailer of Dunk and Egg
• 22:23 Shandra's journey with A Song of Ice and Fire
• 25:20 What if Catelyn was a mother to Jon Snow?
• 30:37 What if Theon escaped Ramsey?
• 38:05 What if Jaime hadn't lost his sword hand?
• 45:38 What if Osha and Rickon stayed with Bran?
• 51:12 What if Bran traveled to Castle Black instead of beyond the wall?
• 53:43 What if Jon stayed with the Wildlings?
• 57:40 What if Talisa had skip the Red Wedding?
• 1:00:25 What if Talisa gave birth to Robb's baby?
• 1:02:24 What if Arya had made it to the Red Wedding in time?
• 1:09:11 What if the Brotherhood without Banners were at the Twins?
• 1:10:38 Lady Stoneheart in the show? Arya a member of the Brotherhood?
• 1:17:17 Book Arya vs Show Arya
• 1:21:32 Shan lays out future episodes of the Fellowship of the Mic podcast
• 1:24:01 What if Netflix reboots GOT?
• 1:26:04 Outro

Transcript

SPEAKER_01: 0:08

Hello everyone, welcome to Dancing with Dragons, a podcast dedicated to everything related to the world of a song of ice and fire created by George R.R. Martin. I'm one of your hosts, Minua, joined here by my co-host Tony, and tonight we have a very special returning guest, a friend of the podcast and a friend of both Tony and I. It's Shan from a Fellowship of the Mic podcast. Also known as At Film Forager on Instagram. Shan, our fellow fantasy enthusiast, is here today, her third time on Dancing with Dragons for a very fun episode. Today we're back with another What If episode, Game of Thrones Season 3 edition. We'll be exploring how Game of Thrones could have gotten entirely different if only small changes happened in season 3. Tony and I really enjoy doing these what-if episodes. They get our mind going and it almost allows us to look at the story in a new way, opening our eyes further to the vastness of George's universe, but also how intricately written the story is, and we're so excited to have Shan join us today and share her perspective, especially since she's currently reading A Storm of Swords. Shan, welcome back to the podcast. How are you? I'm pretty good. How are you guys?

SPEAKER_00: 1:07

Thanks for having me.

SPEAKER_01: 1:08

Of course, we're doing well. Tony, how are you?

SPEAKER_03: 1:11

I'm doing well. I'm trying to write questions for Shan here. Uh yeah, so I was mentioning to her earlier that in when we did season one, what if we had her co-host of her podcast? Yeah. Louis, well, he wasn't your co-host at the time, but we had a fun time doing season one and uh the season two and now season three. I thought of you, I'm like, let's just have some fun. I wanted to do a uh this was supposed to be our blood and cheese episode, but I'm like, that's such a heavy topic. I I don't want to do like a million hours of research and reading and watch. I'm like, let's just do water of season three since they just finished the season, but I'm ready to go.

SPEAKER_01: 1:48

Yeah, I think that's releasing a blood and cheese episode like around the holidays is kind of a bit weird, not very holiday friendly, it's grim. Uh, but we'll definitely get around to releasing that episode, whether it's a grim time or not. Um but Shan, I you said, you know, I'm glad you're doing well, but I saw on your Instagram story you said that you're a bit hopeful, but also not because we received some, I guess, disappointing news in the world of Game of Thrones slash TV and film lately, which is Warner Brothers buying Netflix. So uh like how are you feeling now? I know that you you were a bit uh uh upset about it, but then you also like seemed reassured, I think, in your stories.

SPEAKER_00: 2:27

I took the news pretty hard um because and I I didn't really think about it in HBO terms so much, just mostly the theatrical aspect because it's a major streaming service. It's the number one streaming service taking over, well, the number three streaming service, but also with no promise of prom like keeping the theatrical runs for movies because it's Netflix. Um, and they haven't really released a whole lot of movies theatrically to begin with. I but I'm feeling hopeful in terms of like this merger hasn't it's not done yet, you know. Like maybe, maybe it won't go through, you know, and then Netflix will have to just pay the five billion dollars um fees and canceling their contract or whatever. But it's gonna be messy for a few years until this maybe this investigation goes through.

SPEAKER_03: 3:21

I think Paramount was the one that was trying to bid as well, right?

SPEAKER_00: 3:25

Yeah, and we're Paramount started it.

SPEAKER_03: 3:27

Yeah, so I I think that would make more sense. Uh for me, it's just the first thing I thought was like okay, all the shows are gonna be bad. Yeah, because we're gonna, or you know how Netflix Netflix does is that they'll cut a show, even though it's good, and they'll have a crappy show for 15 seasons. But then again, I'm thinking about okay, I guess the head of like I forgot his name, Ted something. Ted Sarrandos. Yeah, people here, people just want to be at home. Yeah, the way the world is now, people are so they don't make time for anything. So when you you you ever seen that thing about second oh yeah, second screen, second screen viewing, like you're not really paying that. Even when I go to the theater, not as much, I still see people on their phones. I'm like, okay, so you came all the way over here, you paid your money, you paid, and you're on your phone, which I just hate. I even hate seeing the light of a phone on. They can use that as an excuse and be like, well, see, people don't go, and people only go when it's a major, major movie. Like uh, I guess Zootopia 2 is making like a zillion dollars, but then again, you don't give the movies time to make money. I remember when I was growing up in the olden days, a movie would stay in the theater, like Titanic was in the theater for a year plus because they kept making money. Nowadays, Titanic would be available to rent within three weeks in your house. So, and I would get upset back in the day because oh, I love this movie, but now I'm gonna have to wait a year before I even see it on VHS. You know, it you would have time now. The only way a movie would be removed from the theater if it was a really piece of crap, like it made nothing. But now it's just like it doesn't matter who the movies with uh with the quality, it it just you they want to make the money more money again. When you think about people like, well, do I want to go to the theater and spend sixty dollars on food? And then they're thinking about that, or do I rent it for 20 bucks at home? So it's just it's a hard thing. Like, I don't agree with it, I hate it. But then you have those people who are not enthusiasts as us, and they're yeah, it's easier for them to be like, Well, I'm just gonna rent it. They don't realize the cinema, they don't see it like that. No, they see like, well, I'm gonna be home, I could put my pajamas on, and I could just watch wicket, whatever, in my house, or um the new avatar. It's okay if I watch it in my laptop.

SPEAKER_00: 5:57

Yeah. And for for a small theater, um the we talk a lot about this 45-day window gap thing, um, and the fact that he's wanting to decrease it, like it's a big deal because studios already have a hold on how long we can keep movies. So, like for a two-screen, that's what I manage. It's like, all right, well, if they say he wants to do it for 25 days or whatever, I don't know what his strategy is. But if he lowers that, then like we're a first-run theater, so we do get premieres. Um, but we like put our other movies into our other screen. Um, so like something that's called a second run, which is the next two weeks. Um, and so if Disney, so for Avatar, we have to keep Avatar for four weeks. Disney will not let us break that unless it does really poorly on the third week, then maybe we can get out of the fourth week. But right now our contract is for four weeks. So it's like, okay, well, we have to keep this movie for 30 days, basically. And if we do that, then and then Ted Serendos wants to, you know, it's just like a whole thing where um people will just go, well, let's just wait for it to come on streaming. Like we don't have to go do it in the theaters because it's just gonna come on streaming in a week. So why why do we have to go pay yeah, 50 bucks to go to the theater? And so it's just like Netflix, I don't know, this whole theatrical thing is uh like a real bummer because they I don't know, they they aren't they just want the catalog, they don't want anything else, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 7:43

And also you have movies like The Irishman and like the Knives Out, the new ones. Like people are thinking, okay, so I'm paying 20 something bucks a month for Netflix. So now you want me to go to the theater to watch a movie that you're gonna have on Netflix next week. What's the point of that? Like that's another thing people are thinking about. Like Knives Out, I think is maybe in the theaters, the new one, and then but it comes out December 12th on Netflix.

SPEAKER_00: 8:11

Um yeah, in limited theaters, not even a wide release.

SPEAKER_03: 8:14

Yeah, and it's it's just kind of like okay, well, if you're a nonchalant person, you're like, Well, I'm just gonna wait. Why, why even get out of my house? Like, I'm not gonna go.

SPEAKER_01: 8:24

Yeah, I mean, I just had a conversation with one with someone like this past week or week or two, where she said the same thing. She wasn't a big fan of film or or TV, you know, she's like a casual fan who just watches um at home. And she said the same thing, like, Oh, I thought her, oh, this movie's really good. Um, I don't know if it was wicked or one batter after another. And then she said, Oh, I'll just wait for for whenever it's on streaming, whenever it's on Apple TV. And uh this was way before, like this was like uh saying weeks now, like maybe two weeks before the news dropped about Netflix and and Warner Brothers. So unfortunately, that type of audience represents the majority. So we are a niche now that we don't want to go and make an experience out of going to the cinema and it's disappointing. And at the same time, I wonder if Netflix themselves, like they obviously want shorten the theatrical window, but uh it makes me wonder then if they're so passionate about making this the standard model, then why did for example when K-pop Demon Hunters was uh like number one, they uh then released it in cinemas because they knew that that would kind of have uh uh that would make a different type of like a different type of money, you know what I'm saying? People are paying 20 or maybe 20 dollars, I don't know, for one ticket, whereas in they're already paying for the Netflix subscription, they're just going for the theatrical uh experience. So if they understood that the theatrical experience could provide something more and could have that uh pull, then why are they also at the same time like seeking out its I don't call it demise, but you know what I mean? Like, why are they working towards its um extinction? Like they obviously did that for a reason. So they a part of them knows that it's uh it's good and that it could do something, I guess, even for a community that's uh that streaming can't do. So I don't know, but also um Ted Fernandos in his quotes, um, he I don't want to quote the whole thing, but he said that um beloved franchises, shows, and movies such as the Big Bang Theory, The Sopranos, Game of Thrones, The Wizard of Oz, and the DC Universe will join Netflix's extensive portfolio, including Wednesday, Money Heist, Bridgerton, Adolescence, and Extraction. So, I mean, when you compare those titles next to each other, it's like what like you're comparing Game of Thrones and the Wizard of Oz and DC Universe, which has all the known in movies as well. Not even that, the Sopranos. And the Sopranos. So, like extra what even is extraction? Is that like that Liam Hemsworth or Chris Hemsworth movie? Like no one knows what that is. It's their franchises are not beloved anymore. Like Wednesday, I guess, is fine, but I think the only person like not many people love that show. Like it's not doesn't have that same impact that's the Sopranos and Game of Thrones does. You know, same thing for adolescents, okay? It's one Emmys, but I'm sorry, like I think a lot of people forgot about it. Uh I I don't know, I could be wrong. Same thing for Money Heists. The quality in Bridgerton, the quality of those shows completely dipped in the later season. So I mean, and to include the Wizard of Oz there too. I mean, come on.

SPEAKER_03: 11:16

Yeah, we don't know about Netflix. They're so uh it's such so um they hide everything so well. Like, we don't know those numbers they put out are real. Like, you know the new the Nielsen ratings, and you oh this show has 50 million or 20 million viewers an episode, and they'll they'll put out minutes. Oh, okay, like they could just be fabricating that we don't even know what's going on and how they determine that. And it's just I would have had a better uh felt better if like uh Apple because I know Apple is like dedicated to to movies and and and they're actually doing probably for me is the number one service in quality of shows. Like every show I watch now from Apple TV is like legit good. I'm not gonna get political here because it's it'll be bad. Uh so if it this has happened before back like a hundred years ago. I don't know if you know like the the railroad history, uh you know how the monopolies for the railroad they they wanted to have one giant company, and um President Roosevelt said no, like he put a stop to it, like he went to the Supreme Court, like no, no, you can't do that, you can't just have one conglomerate like major company. So he kind of broke it up, he forced us, but anyway, that would never happen nowadays because we're so it's all about greed and money, so we can't uh wait for the people to do the right thing. Uh, the only thing I do see are people speaking out, big people directors, or like we can't have this, and maybe yeah, but again, like how are you going to turn down money? Like, if they're offering this exane amount of money for what are you gonna if you're a shareholder, that's all you care about.

SPEAKER_00: 12:56

But at what cost? I mean, Adam Sandler already sold his soul to Netflix, like like in the case, and that's the thing because they they somehow have this endless amount of money, but yet they're in debt.

SPEAKER_03: 13:09

Like they're they give you, they'll give uh uh Scorsese 400 million dollars to make a movie. How do they make that money back? People are not buying Netflix to see a four-hour movie about indigenous, you know what I mean? Like that they're not making their movie and their money back. They'll give uh The Rock and this 80 million for a movie and and and just like anyway.

SPEAKER_00: 13:33

The the biggest complaint for Killers of the Flower Moon, we had that at our theater, and the biggest complaint was just that Score says he didn't uh create um an intermission. That was the only complaint. Like people still wanted to come see his movie, even though it was three and a half hours, but the complaint was that they he didn't build in an intermission for the movie, and we're not gonna do that. Like, we don't want to mess up the flow of the movie, so we don't add intermissions.

SPEAKER_03: 13:57

All right, pause everybody, go to the bathroom. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 14:00

And so anyway, to conclude for on my like thing with this is that just if they wanna lower, if they want to lessen the window of theatrical runs, then the studios need to like take a grip off of how long we have to keep it in the movie theater. Like that's what we're really trying to work on and lobby for. Um, and yeah, like if it does good for two weeks, Disney Avatar, we're cutting it after two weeks. Like, we should have some say in how long we keep it if you're just gonna have it streaming in 31 days, you know. Like, so that's the big thing that we have to do.

SPEAKER_03: 14:39

Or have the also the the chance to say, hey, can we keep it longer? This is making a lot of money for us.

SPEAKER_00: 14:46

Yeah, we can we can do that, no problem.

SPEAKER_03: 14:48

Okay, then this is selling out every show, like we need to have it. But if you if you notice, like maybe because you're in a small town, maybe everybody's gonna go watch it the first weekend, and then the next weekend, it's just like okay, it's not that many people here, they're not gonna re-watch it. We're not crazy like before, where we would go to the theater 10 times.

SPEAKER_00: 15:08

And another thing it too is that um, and this is just specific to like my town, because I'm a university town. In the summer, there's summer blockbusters, but literally all the students leave. So Jurassic World uh rebirth did horribly here, but we had to keep it for three weeks because we wanted to take it on the on the premiere day. Um, but that's just the only that was the only blockbuster that was really like that we needed in the summertime, but we didn't have anyone show up for it because no students were here. Half our population was gone.

SPEAKER_01: 15:40

Wow. I I wanna uh like just make one more point, combining kind of something that you said with something that Tony said, which is that um Netflix kind of uh you said, Shan, that Netflix wanna buy it for the uh for the library, they want to buy Warner Brothers for their library, but at the same time, it's out of I think it's just an ego thing of trying to say, as he said in the in the statement, like, we bought the Game of Thrones, we have the Sopranos, we bought the Wizard of Oz, now it's ours. But they don't really care about about those franchises or about those stories at all. And they don't care about having the uh like preserving the library and the catalogue because Warner Brothers is you know like one of the oldest film studios in the US, they produce all those movies, and yet on Netflix you don't see any classics. So I'm sure that Netflix has the rights to classics and must-watch movies for Cinefly.

SPEAKER_03: 16:35

Yeah, they have the AMC section where they have the old old movies.

SPEAKER_01: 16:38

You can see like all the Japanese HBO isn't available where I am, so I I uh yeah, so I I HBO does have a lot, a lot, a lot of old, old movies, like classic movies.

SPEAKER_00: 16:48

The T Turner classic movies, yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 16:50

TCM, okay also was there, yeah. They also have a lot of international Japanese, a lot Japanese, French, German, all that stuff. So like I don't know, is that gonna go anyway? So I did read that um a lot of the contracts are not are written till like 2030. A lot of these movies and shows, so they wouldn't have control over certain shows if this goes through until like 2030. So let's say they do get it, and you have House of the Dragon, or okay, are they all gonna drop on the same day? Are we gonna like who's I don't want to even think about it.

SPEAKER_00: 17:30

Just because I I just thought of something else too. With uh everyone at the theater, they keep calling, hey, are you gonna get the Stranger Things finale? It's only exclusive to theaters. Um, no, Netflix handpicked 500 theaters. We're not getting it, we're not in the 500 of you know, 4500 theaters in the in the United States were not on the top of the lists. Yeah, so it's like Netflix is also trying to say, Hey, we care about theaters, we're only gonna drop the finale in theaters. Uh no, you don't. You're only handpicking cinemaplexes, you're not handpicking handpicking any independent nonprofits. So you don't actually care about theaters because cinema plexes are also not good.

SPEAKER_03: 18:10

So I'm assuming that just pretty much the vast majority of those theaters are in the big cities, like east and west coast. Yeah, it's just kind of like scary but maybe Chicago will get some.

SPEAKER_00: 18:21

Maybe I didn't check, but probably Chicago.

SPEAKER_03: 18:24

So, all right, so let's move on. This is kind of depressing, and it's maybe yeah, yeah. Please let's talk about the newest trailer of the Knight of the Seven Kingdoms. We did a whole episode about the teaser. Uh, we won't get into too detail, but I wanted to ask Shan since you haven't read the book. What are your expectations in going into this show? Did you enjoy the trailer? What did what did you see in the trailer that got you going, hmm? Maybe I'm gonna like this show.

SPEAKER_00: 18:52

The humor. I love comedy, and I think that's going to be really refreshing. Um, of course, it still has some dark aspects that I saw in the theater, like the actual the games, what are they called?

SPEAKER_03: 19:04

Oh, jousting.

SPEAKER_00: 19:05

The jousting, yeah. Like those look really muddy and dark, you know. But I don't know. I think I like the teaser more because it did show a little bit more of like the walking and the adventure and like the banter between the two. And this showed a lot more of like yeah, like the jousting games, etc. But um, I have a question. Did I see the actor who plays Potterick in there? It looked just like him. Oh, and I was like, why and how? Because that doesn't make any sense.

SPEAKER_03: 19:33

Oh, the guy who was on the fence or something?

SPEAKER_00: 19:35

No, he was just like talking to uh the knight. I don't know.

SPEAKER_03: 19:40

I don't I'm assuming that if it was, it would be all over everywhere. So I don't I don't know.

SPEAKER_00: 19:46

Yeah, it just looked exactly like him, and I was like, but wait, wait, wait, wait, what? It's a hundred years before that.

SPEAKER_03: 19:53

Yeah, the biggest thing for me was seeing Baylor, Targaryen, or Brickspear. He has in the book, he has dark. Hair and they gave him dark hair. And I don't understand why they didn't give Rainice the black hair with the silver streaks. They did it with everybody else. They did it with you know Vernera's kids, and why not just give her the blood? She would have just stood up.

SPEAKER_00: 20:14

Was he the one who says, How good of a knight are you?

SPEAKER_03: 20:16

Yeah, so he's um he is the heir to the throne. His dad is the king there on the second. And he's also the hand of the king at the time. Yeah, he's a big character. I don't he doesn't really come out in the book, but he's this trailer is 70% of it is focused on the finale, which is gonna be the I won't say um what's gonna go on, but yeah, um you could totally tell it's the humor, like you said. Um I think everybody's gonna fall in love with Dunk and Egg when they're together because it's just he's so adorable. How can you not love Egg? You also get to see Prince Makar. Makar is the father of our beloved Maester Amon. That's kind of cool, and he's also the Arian's father as well. I don't forget. Yeah, they the the Targaryen who's kind of like the villain, he has that cool mask, the cool helm, and he has this he has the short hair, which is kind of weird because so in the in the novel, he it doesn't have short hair, but they gave him short hair, and it's like they're just anyway. I I think this is gonna be the most um faithful to uh adaptation we've gotten so far in terms of of George's books.

SPEAKER_01: 21:32

Yeah, I think so too, and I actually like this trailer. I didn't get the chance to watch it until like just a few minutes before we started recording. But um I thought that made me more excited than the other teasers and trailers, anything else that we've gotten before. I think that this uh to me, this this appealed to me the most. And I I can't wait. Looks really cool. And I love that shot of um Dunk's armor, like when when you go to kind of like thro you see his POV. Yeah, I can't wait. I think it's gonna be I think it's gonna be really good. I hope so, but I have a good feeling.

SPEAKER_03: 22:03

And it's it's it's gonna not suck, but it's gonna be like, god damn it, why is it only 30 minutes? Because we're like 30-35 minutes, and it's just like six episodes, but at least we get the next season, the next year, we don't have to wait the two years. So that's the only bright, you know, looking on the bright side. Meanwhile, I mentioned that you were reading Storm of Swords, so that means you've read you read the first two. In your opinion, after you read the first one, or even the second one, what was the biggest thing you got out of it of the differences you could tell between the show and the book?

SPEAKER_00: 22:40

Um well, one and two are pretty similar to the show. I had a whole list of things that I was mentally keeping. Um so far, the big thing that I'm noticing so far in the third book is that um for character deaths, um, and don't spoil it for me yet, because I haven't finished the book, Great John is still alive. Theon didn't behead him. And so I'm maybe it still can happen. Maybe Ramsey can be the one to do it. But um, but the other major thing, I guess, is the magic. I love Bran. He's my favorite character, book character. And whenever I get to Bran's chapters, I I just like this is I get cozy with my book, and I'm just like, okay, it's a brand chapter, and I he has all the magic and the green scene. And right now I'm with uh Mira and Jojen and Bran and Hodar, and it's just those are my comfort chapters. I love those. I love all the magic.

SPEAKER_03: 23:39

And you're not the only one when I see hear people talk about the books and the show, and they saw the show first and then read the books, they're like, Bran was like in the show, Bran is like by the end, you're like, he's so whatever. We don't really care about Branny. You're useless, he didn't do anything. But in the in the book, they're like, Oh, he's so amazing. Um, and the same with like John, people love John Book John more than show John, not the majority, but I've heard a lot of people say that. So you're not the first person to say Bran. And I I don't understand why we don't we didn't get all of this magical element, and because you would have had the 10 seasons and we would have had a certain character that we'll talk about soon. But uh yeah, I'm just happy both of you are reading Minois and the you finished the fourth one?

SPEAKER_01: 24:31

I finished. Okay. Uh on a dream, a dream of spring, I wish. Um that's all dream about Dance of Dragons. Yeah. Um, I'm on uh Dance of Dragons. I was gonna say I'm on Dancing of Dragons. Um but like just like maybe the first chapter or two, like I I like I wouldn't really count it as like me starting, starting it just yeah, so it's funny.

SPEAKER_03: 24:56

I sent I sent um I had a memory I don't go to Facebook ever, I just check memory sometimes, and I had a memory of me finishing the fifth book, and it was like 2012, and I go, I'm so bum I have to wait a couple years, and that was 13 years ago, almost 14 years ago. Anyway, anyway, anyway.

SPEAKER_01: 25:21

Anyway, okay, so let's just get into the episode what's if Game of Thrones season three. I'm gonna hand the mic to Shan first to kick it off with our first question, our first what's if. Shan, please reveal your first what's if scenario of uh season three of Game of Thrones.

SPEAKER_00: 25:36

Okay, so this is sort of not a big one, it's um not red wedding related, and as I feel like a lot of our questions are, but um there's a scene when Catelyn Stark is talking to Talissa about a dying baby Jon Snow. He liked like he had gotten some sort of flu or smallpox or something equivalent, and he was dying in his deathbed. And Catelyn had prayed to the gods um about sparing his life and how he would how Catelyn would change her ways, she would accept him, she would love him, and she would ask Ned to legitimize him. Um, and then at the end of her whole story, she said that she couldn't keep her promise. So my question to you is what if Catelyn Stark had kept her promise about Jon Stowe when she prayed he would live as a baby?

SPEAKER_01: 26:27

Like off the top of my head, thinking about it very quickly, I think that this creates kind of like a bigger butterfly effect than one would assume initially, because you would think, okay, then just John would be, I guess, a little less gloomy, a little less serious, maybe. Um, and maybe he'd have a better relationship dynamic with his siblings. That's kind of like the first image that I got when I imagined the scenario. But in the long run, if that was the case, then John probably wouldn't have felt the way that he did growing up. Um, and not having those feelings probably would have led him to not joining the night's watch. So he probably would have been with Rob during going south. Um, and honestly, if everything else kind of remained the same, I could honestly see him maybe even uh one scenario would be him dying at the at the red wedding with Rob, but at the same time I could see Rob using John if they were together as like an envoy to like um to send him to to deal with with people as Ned Stark's son, and that would have had more weight than Theon would have been more trusted. So that then opens up another kind of worms where uh you know Winterfell probably wouldn't have been taken. How would the Boltons have come into play with that? I maybe Rob could have won. I I don't know, I feel like it's it's could snowball into something bigger and bigger and bigger, but um that's kind of where I envisioned season three. John would be with season three, Rob or would be serving him. And I think that John would still be like in support of Rob. I don't think he would have that um complex or that issue in his head where he's like, I need to be the heir, you know, like that there's none of that drama. He would have just supported Rob through and through and would have been supporting him in the War of the Five Kings that's currently happening. That's um and and as as a result of that, sorry, like as a result of that, the Knights Watch then probably would have been going through their own different type of drama, they would have been weaker.

SPEAKER_03: 28:17

I think maybe Rob would have had John stay back in Winterfoe and be Lord of Winterfoe while he was gone. That could have been an option as well. Uh he hef but knowing John and they would have, even though they weren't quote unquote real brothers, they still had a bond. And I think he probably would have wanted to go with Rob, and I think he would have been his most trusted advisor. Uh, he probably would have had him commanding some kind of troop somewhere, and maybe they wouldn't be together at the red wedding. Uh, and then that makes John the heir, then he's the heir to Winterfell. Uh, when it comes to Catelyn, I love Catelyn's character, but the one negative towards her is her treatment of John in that first couple episodes. We just see her like, why does she hate this kid so much? Like the anger is like if she could kill him. That one scene is one of my favorite scenes of Michelle Fairley when she's doing that story. And I think in in in reality, I don't think she could have in that world, you don't say, Oh, let's just it I think it's an embarrassment to have your lord husband bring a baby from another woman, and then you say, Okay, let's just make it my my I don't think that works in that world, you know what I mean? I mean that's the right thing to do because this is an innocent baby, it's not their fault. If I was writing the story and I had John be the legit stark, I probably would have had him in a different area, not in the red wedding. Um that's what I can think of on the top of my head. So what are what were you thinking for your question, Shen?

SPEAKER_00: 29:57

Well, yeah, I the main thing is that Rob would trust him enough to be an advisor. So maybe the red wedding wouldn't have happened at all. Maybe instead of falling in love with Talisa, he would have some sort of like, I don't know, maybe you know, love blinds, I guess, still no matter what, but like maybe John would have been there to be like, hey, don't do this. And then maybe the red wedding wouldn't have happened. Um, I think being at Winterfell is a good thought as well. Um, because I don't think Rob, I think Rob would still want to fight the war as the heir, and yeah, leaving Jon Snow there at Winterfell to protect.

SPEAKER_01: 30:37

Okay, I'll jump in next with our second what's if scenario. We just mentioned um Theon and the my question is what if Theon escaped Ramsay's capture?

SPEAKER_00: 30:48

Okay, so firstly, re-watching all of this stuff with Ramsay really made me upset.

SPEAKER_04: 30:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 30:54

Um, it is so I I and I was watching, I watch I don't watch all of the behind the scenes when it comes to DB and David Benedhoff, but like I watched the behind the scenes of this whole thing where Ramsay's tricking Theon the whole time. Like, here, I'm gonna like you can escape and go, and your sister's gonna meet you here, and then he kills the people, and then he takes them back, and then he it's just really frustrating, especially when Theon um is there and they're like trying to open the gate, and uh Theon is really opening up his heart to this random guy, and Ramsay's just like it's okay. And he has this face, and only us, only the audience members can see Ramsey's face, and it actually looks compassionate. Theon cannot see it, so it is just for us to be tricked, and it just it's so frustrating. Okay, so sorry, I had to say that. Um, yeah, I I don't know. I guess for Theon, the North's politics would shift like immediately. And this whole storyline actually really confuses me. I had to look it up after I was done with the show, with with the season, um, because I don't really know Ramsey's motives. Of course, he's just a psychopath, but like I don't know why I don't know who's on whose orders it is to be torturing Theon. Like, is it Rob's? Is it Roos's? Is it just Ramsay being crazy? Can someone elaborate?

SPEAKER_03: 32:19

I don't think Rob is going to tell anybody to torture anyone. Um, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 32:24

Or like, you know, keeping him prisoner, but this is this is the Bolton's way of keeping prisoners.

SPEAKER_03: 32:30

Bolton is um a madman, it could be him, and also you have Ramsay who's you know, next to Joffrey is he makes sometimes he makes Joffrey look like a you know a kitten. And I think the biggest thing if he were to escape, where does he go? He can't go north because now he's a traitor to the Starks, he would be probably hunted there. Will he go back? How does he even get to the iron? Like, that's a tough one. That's like does he's he's basically worthless. He he's not gonna be um he's not gonna be welcomed back to his dad. No, like his dad is not welcome, he thinks of him less of a man, he doesn't even think of him as a man anymore, so he's not gonna welcome him back to open arms. Maybe um Yara will have some compassion and do something. Is that that's how he escapes? Is Yara completing the rescue? Because they she does try to rescue him, right? And was it was no season four, right?

SPEAKER_00: 33:31

This is the he has his member in the box and his dad doesn't want to go, but Yara literally is she's got she has ships, she's on her way.

SPEAKER_03: 33:41

Okay, she's but she hasn't gone, so that's season four. I'm just trying to like did that happen, and I just I already forgot.

SPEAKER_00: 33:48

I think an interesting path would be if if Theon just if he really thinks that no one cares about him after being like if he actually was tortured already by Ramsey and then escaped. I think that he a good redemption story on his own would be to try to find Brandon Rick and sort of, I don't know, fix that.

SPEAKER_03: 34:09

Yeah, I think that's yeah, that'd probably be the best the best uh option. I mean, he does have his arc moment in season eight, but uh probably one of the better moments of the season eight catastrophe was Theon um returning to Winterfell. Uh but yeah, that's that's a good one, and I think um it's it's one of those um questions, one of the storylines that we covered on the podcast. You you deal with it. I don't want to talk about it.

SPEAKER_01: 34:44

Yeah. Yeah, I didn't want to talk about Theon at all. So I understand when you said that like you I was surprised that you had a Theon question. Yeah, I I just I don't know. I it it felt like maybe it stood out to me because like I um I've been avoiding him, you know, it's like I've been avoiding that, and when you avoid it's because it left an impact and it just I don't know, it disturbed me. So I actually I was gonna include a Danny question, but I knew that I would be so busy and I wouldn't be able to do her justice that I felt like I couldn't, I can't I need to do the proper research and I can't uh I can't um do her justice um without the proper research because I was just so busy. Um but yeah about Theon for me I I like Shan's uh uh Shan's suggestion when what she said. Um for me, I just thought that Theon, um, if he escaped, he'd obviously not be uh accepted anywhere, right? Like he wouldn't be accepted with I think the Starks. I kind of forgot about Brian, sorry, so I just thought that you know he he would be a bit lost, not with his uh family either. So um I kind of thought of two scenarios. One is uh I guess good, and the other one is a bit uh more grim. So the grim one, or I guess the darker one would be that uh Theon kind of gets captured by uh I don't know, I don't it's not so uh I don't think it's the best idea, but they he gets captured by people from King's Landing and they kind of use him and he kind of I don't want to say he breaks out of the whole Reek thing because I don't know if that's possible, but they uh use him as some sort of spy and he kind of becomes a like a double agent or something, like something along those lines. Like it's it's a bit more like he he turns evil. I I I I just thought that some way somehow I could see it. I just can't see the exact steps, like I could see something like that happening. But the other one is I guess the more peaceful one where he just uh like I could see him just being in the north, um happy to be alive and uh fed up with Westeros, and he just gets on the next trip to Esos and maybe bumps into Arya, maybe not. But I think that he just chooses to leave everything and and everyone behind after that gets so traumatized and just decides to live a very simple life as like a and the orange farms of Esos, where where Kristen Cole wanted to take anyone.

SPEAKER_03: 37:07

Uh he can also maybe. I mean, if he was if he had a death wish, go back to John uh Rahm and be like, Look, I actually didn't kill your brothers, they're alive for real. They're out there.

SPEAKER_01: 37:18

Yeah, I know he he would be killed immediately.

SPEAKER_03: 37:21

So but um okay, so here's my um first question.

SPEAKER_00: 37:24

Okay, can I just say one one more thing about the season eight, Theon? Yeah, um what I didn't even think about this is that because doesn't he sacrifice himself to save Bran against the Night King?

SPEAKER_02: 37:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 37:38

So I feel like if he was with Bran and he just cut out everything else that was happening to Theon the whole time and just immediately became friends and put the protector of Bran and Rikon, I think that would just be that would just be it would just connect that better if they're if we're gonna choose that ending for Theon, which we shouldn't.

SPEAKER_03: 37:55

That's the best, I think he and he could have died instead of Horror in that episode. But anyway.

SPEAKER_00: 38:01

Oh yeah. Okay, sorry, go ahead.

SPEAKER_03: 38:04

No, you're good, you're good. Uh mine is what if Jamie arrived at King's Landing with Brienne with his sword hand intact? How does that does he go through his transformation or evolve into a decent human, or does how does that change his character or his arc in the show if his hand is not chopped off?

SPEAKER_00: 38:24

So he still saves Brienne from the grizzly bear.

SPEAKER_03: 38:27

Yeah, they they arrive to King's Landing, they some they arrived at King's Landing together. Okay, let me rephrase it. Let's say they never get captured by Locke and they go straight to King's Landing, nothing happens to them. It's a smooth, smooth uh uh trip. He doesn't get the moment in the spa, we always call spa. And he's well let me ask you, and then I'll I'll give you my thing.

SPEAKER_00: 38:52

I mean, he's obviously not going to have the greatest character arc of the show, then if that's the case.

SPEAKER_01: 38:58

I I don't know if the placement kind of changed his stuff because would he have cared as much about Brienne than if his hand didn't get chopped off, you know what I mean? Like he did, but at the same time, would he have been like I think something maybe could have happened before he would have maybe gotten rid of Brienne, but because I see if it I see it going that if Jamie still had his hand, then he wouldn't have really gone through a major character transformation, as Shan said.

SPEAKER_03: 39:22

So it's probably better if he does get captured, but they don't chop his hand off. So everything is the same, just he has his hand. So he still gets the guilt, he still gets the does he go back and does he become instantly a uh Lannister Loyalist and forget about that? Does he break his oath with Brienne? I still think he still keeps his oath with uh he lets her go. Um, but anyway, go sorry. I'm changing my question here. I'm just like I don't think it makes sense that they just go straight because if they go straight through. With nothing happening to him, he's still gonna be that same Jamie that was with her when the beginning of their trip. Like he just kept making fun of her, doesn't respect her, and by the end, he's like that's his friend there. So I think they need he needs the trauma, he needs that he does to he needs to be broken.

SPEAKER_00: 40:20

Something something needs to happen.

SPEAKER_03: 40:23

And I think the losing the losing of the hand is is what tips the iceberg to for him because he's not a he doesn't consider himself a man anymore. Like this is yeah, I'm I'm considered the greatest swordsman, and now my one power is gone.

SPEAKER_01: 40:39

And just to add to that, I think that if he made it back to King's Landing completely safe without any trauma or without any and with both of his hands uh completely fine and intact, then it would obviously be a very happy um occasion because you know his his capture was a big issue for a while, and they would have been like, oh, like the the great knight returns would have been such a big celebration, and uh then I think maybe Jamie uh would have just like stayed in with his ways, you know. Like I don't think my question for you then is how would you see his relationship changing with Cersei? Would would they just be back to normal or well?

SPEAKER_03: 41:18

I think the biggest thing I would see is if he goes back intact, Tywin is the one that's gonna use him because remember, Tywin wants him to be Lord of Castaway Rock. He he would probably have used them to marry somebody, and then I'm thinking about the trial of combat for if everything happens with with um Tyrion, he's obviously gonna pick Jamie. But would Jamie say yes? Like, you know, I think Jamie would have said yes if he went through all that stuff and had his hand, but without his hand, he can't fight the mountain.

SPEAKER_00: 41:53

So it's just so many little things, and maybe Tyrion won't have a trial at all because Jamie's there to back him up. Yeah, true. Like they can pin it on someone else, you know, like it doesn't have to be a Lannister.

SPEAKER_03: 42:06

Well, Cersei was gonna blame Tyrion no matter what, and I think uh which if you think about why didn't Jamie step in while he was in prison, like you know he didn't do it, like yeah, but that's all a little foggy for me.

SPEAKER_00: 42:19

I haven't seen season four in so long.

SPEAKER_03: 42:20

Yeah, me too. I'm I'm dying to see it because I look at the IMDB and everything is like nine point whatever and higher.

SPEAKER_00: 42:27

Like, oh it's like the best, apparently. I had to look it up the other day.

SPEAKER_03: 42:31

It sucks because um, well, obviously, he doesn't go like in the in the book right now, he's he's in the Riverlands fighting, he's not with Cersei at all. Um, there they don't have a relationship, not like they do in the show. I think Cersei's rule would become even stronger because then Jamie's not gonna oppose her. He opposes her now because he's gone through all you know, he's seen the the light, so to speak.

SPEAKER_00: 42:56

Sorry, how is the relationship with Tywin when Jamie gets back in the show? Like, does anyone remember?

SPEAKER_03: 43:00

Because well, Tywin's upset because he he wants him to leave the King's Guard. He's like, you can't be a one-arm bodyguard.

SPEAKER_00: 43:10

Yeah, so so if he came back with his arm, Tywin probably would still have some respect for him, and so would Cersei. And therefore, I think that when Tyrion is blamed, Jamie always has Tyrion's back, and I don't think I think Cersei wouldn't allow it. I don't I just don't think Jamie wouldn't allow Cersei to blame Tyrion. Yeah, there has to be someone else because he still has dignity and she still takes him seriously. So I think maybe he would be like, no, no, no, let's let's think about this. It's not Tyrion.

SPEAKER_03: 43:43

Yeah. I think everything else would have changed too, because once he gets back without the hand, he doesn't feel like he can step in. Even like Joffrey's making fun of him because he has the you know, he has the one hand, and now he has other Kingsguards there. Like if he goes back intact, he he could just take over. Like, all right, everybody, I'm firing everybody. This is I need my own crew, yeah. Um, but like at the end, he doesn't die. He I think you just stay a loyalist. He doesn't even though even though in the show they they screwed him up anyway, he died a Lannister loyalist because he died with his sister. Yeah, but he didn't die a redeemed night. Like, my my thing is like he would have died in Winterfell, like pre protecting some a Stark, maybe Bran or Brian.

SPEAKER_01: 44:32

It should have been Bran. Maybe God would have been so cool.

SPEAKER_03: 44:36

Him kill him trying to kill the Night King or him dying protecting Brianne would have been more of a payoff. Um, but hey. What if he lost his other hand?

SPEAKER_00: 44:48

Oh, his neck non-fighting hand. I still think people would still make fun of him, even though he can still fight. Yeah, he would still be a crippled in everyone's eyes, and I think Tywin would still respond, and Joffrey would still respond that way.

SPEAKER_01: 45:01

Yeah, but then that might have like uh made Jamie be like go on a different arc of being angry and wanting to prove that he's still good. You know, I think that I don't see Jamie being like, well, I don't need to prove anything to you. You know, he I don't see him being that like um in touch and sorry, wise about it. I think he it could trigger something in him and he would like like fight someone with his with his good hand and and um try to prove himself like I'm still the same.

SPEAKER_00: 45:31

And then maybe that would have made more sense to have the ending that he got, like yeah, because he's not like fully changed, you know. So Osha and Rickon end up leaving Bran and Hodar, and they are going to try to go to Castle Black, I believe, or somewhere else, but they're not going beyond the wall again. Like Osha's like, no, I'm not doing this. I've seen the White Walkers, I'm not going back. She's like hard with us. Yeah, so they split up. So my question for you is what if Osha and Rickon had gone with Bran?

SPEAKER_03: 46:05

I think it would have been annoying for Mira and Jojen to have this little kid there. It would have been just bickering the whole time, right? Because they hated each other. They it was one of the we didn't get that many scenes, but Mira and Osha fighting was kind of funny. You know, they had their moments. Uh obviously it would have been much slower. It they would have been a um what do you call too much of a weight to carry throughout because then I don't think they could have focused on the the plan of getting there if you had because I think well, yeah, he's a baby in the book. He's like what three or four years old, Rickon, or five, maybe like that, taller. I think in the books it would work because then you have more time to figure out a way to develop that. But I don't I don't think they would have in the show would have been like, oh, this is boring. Like, why are they they doing that? Or or but anyway, that that's my my take on it.

SPEAKER_01: 47:05

As for me, honestly, I I I hate to say it, but I don't think that Racon is such an important character. Like I just think that he I honestly I don't know why this is gonna sound so mean, and I half mean it as a joke and half not, like at Racon's expense, but I just think he would have like died of like frostbite or something, and then just that's it. Like I can't see I can't see any uh relevant storyline for him in the show, regardless. Like, or I mean sorry, in the books or both actually, like I just don't see him okay, he he was in the battle between John and Ramsay, but he didn't he never had any significant arc, and I don't see anything happening to him changing much, uh, or like do like changing much for him or others. Yeah, I just think he's gonna die.

SPEAKER_03: 47:56

Yeah, or maybe they go to they say, Hey, you can go, but we're gonna drop you off at Castle Black, and then we go beyond the wall or something. That way they know at least they're safe. The ramifications of hey, there is a Stark at Castle Black, what would that have done to the realm like, oh shit, you know, John's or Rob is dead, but uh Ned's youngest son is alive. That could have had some kind of you know impact on the story, which that was my my next question, anyway. So uh go ahead, Sharon. What's your thoughts on it?

SPEAKER_00: 48:28

Well, my first thought is that at least they would have two direwolves going beyond the wall. That's my first thought. Um, but then also, of course, Ramsey wouldn't have had a hold of them. Like if Rickon and Osha had split, then Rickon would have been at least somewhere, not near Ramsey, and he wouldn't have had the horrible death that he had. Unfair.

SPEAKER_03: 48:51

Um he had to do was Zig and Zag.

SPEAKER_00: 48:54

Yeah, but that's true. But I think Ramsey's crazy brain would have gotten him again anyway. Um, but then what if what if Rickon learned how to warg too?

SPEAKER_03: 49:04

You know, that's why that's what I'm saying. It will work in the sh in the book.

SPEAKER_00: 49:08

Yeah, yeah. So like all of them can, right? So like what if they actually utilized that and made his storyline a little bit more interesting? I mean, they're not even giving him the benefit of the doubt, they're just like making him a weak character on purpose, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And what if uh Jojen helped him greensee or you know, as well, you know, like trained both Starks at the same time. Um, and then also if Lady Stoneheart's still alive, I mean, if she becomes a thing and Rickon can warg, maybe he just really wants to find his mom, and then he finds his mom, and then Lady Stoneheart and Rickon get together, and he's safe, and he and you know, she has her baby again.

SPEAKER_03: 49:52

Yeah, but I don't think the show had any patience with this storyline of let's take her time, we could use this incredible source of magic, and let's that would have been awesome to see just dials, and again, they probably didn't want to do the dials and the CGI and the blah blah blah, and it gets me upset anyway.

SPEAKER_00: 50:15

So in the books, um, I'm guessing Rickon is still alive because they haven't even gotten to John's whole redemption yet, right? In the books?

SPEAKER_03: 50:26

John?

SPEAKER_00: 50:27

So yeah, so like John is still dead in the books, right?

SPEAKER_03: 50:30

Well, we don't know. Oh yeah, like it's it's it's one of those like was that the cliffhanger and and then George's. Well, that's no, yeah, that's the cliffhanger. It's kind of like you're thinking he's dead, and then he never they never speak of it again. And then there's the last uh chapter is not it's not about that.

SPEAKER_00: 50:51

Um and that's that's where George left off, right? Like this is where it stops.

SPEAKER_03: 50:56

Okay, it's in it's in limbo.

SPEAKER_00: 50:58

So Rickon is still alive, too.

unknown: 51:01

I can't.

SPEAKER_03: 51:01

Don't tell me I'm I'm pretty sure. I mean, I don't remember though. Like I said, I haven't read the fifth book in close to 10 years now. So I'm trying to get there. Yeah, I had one about what if John, what if Bran had gone to Castle Black instead of being on the wall, which is kind of like, well, a lot of storylines don't happen. You know, no visions, no transformation, no early knowledge of the Knights King's movements, which doesn't make didn't make a really big difference that he knew where the Night King was. No, no warging into Horlord in the Cave. No, I mean it's just like the the magic is kind of is dissipated even more if he goes to Castle Black. Again, the only thing that bec uh is changes if Bran goes to Castle Black is that now he's a political character, not a mystical one. And they're thinking about now we have the heir to Winterfells. And you know, the same thing if Rickon went to to Castle Black. And I just answered my question, but anyway, what what if he gone to the wall?

SPEAKER_00: 52:06

I feel like a uh Maister Amon would have some insight too if Bran had gone there. Maybe Master Eamon would Maester Eamon would just tell him, actually, you have a duty. Yeah, go beyond the wall.

SPEAKER_01: 52:21

And oh true, true. And sorry, you're talking about season three, like John is still with the wildlings at this point, right? Yeah, just to clarify, okay. Uh sorry, Shane, did I interrupt? Or was that no no okay? I think Tony, you kind of gave the the answer, which is that he kind of would have been political, you know. Uh because at that point, he's not just like a mystical person, a mystical character that's gonna develop his powers and such. He's going to be used because then you know the the the watch Mr. Eamon could send um Bran and and like get him back on his quest or where he should be. But um the Night's Watch could also feel like they have a duty then to send like someone to Rob and tell them Bran is here, and then Bran would find out that Rob uh that Bran, sorry, Rob would find out that Bran is alive, and then that would have set off a different butterfly effect, maybe they would have sent someone to go, or you know, Catelyn might have left to go see him, uh you know, because she wasn't on good terms with Rob anyways at that point, right? So um she probably would have left Rob if that was like all at the right time and went to the night's watch to meet Bran, and Bran would have been back and went to that's very true.

SPEAKER_03: 53:32

Good point. I didn't even think about Catelyn. Yeah, she would have definitely left and gone straight to the wall if she heard her two boys were alive.

SPEAKER_01: 53:40

It was that was the political angle, kind of, I think. Okay. My second question is what if John stayed with the wildlings?

SPEAKER_03: 53:48

I don't that's hard. What do you think, Shan? It is he's too loyal, like I don't know, deep down.

SPEAKER_01: 53:54

But I mean, I'm leaving it a bit vague. So, like what if he stayed but still felt loyal? You could still, you know, be like you could still add his his uh mental state into it, you know, his issues into it.

SPEAKER_03: 54:06

Here's what I thought of he stays if she's pregnant.

SPEAKER_01: 54:14

Yes, that's true.

SPEAKER_03: 54:16

If she's pregnant with his child, he's not leaving. He's he could reconcile, you know what? I have to be now faithful to her and my uh unborn child. That's the only way I see him staying with the wildlings.

SPEAKER_00: 54:30

So when he leaves though, it's because he can't kill the old farmer. Yes. So is he still willing to kill people? Because that's why he ended up running.

SPEAKER_03: 54:40

Or he has to figure out a way to convince her to leave as well. I mean, that's he's gonna be in that conundrum of okay, what do I do? I don't want to leave. If I leave, then I'm leaving my child. I can't stay because I don't want to kill innocent people. Um Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 54:56

And that was one of my other questions, too, is what if Igret went with him?

SPEAKER_03: 55:01

That would have been tough because he he he wouldn't be able to go back to the wall. Because he can't have a wife or a woman. He would have had say, you know what, I'm just gonna break my oath and go straight to John or Rob or somebody's that I know.

SPEAKER_01: 55:15

And yeah, even so, uh, I mean, if he did go back to Westeros, then I mean to like the wall, uh, you know, not to Westeros beyond the wall, you know, like down and south of the wall. Um they wouldn't really accept him either. Like she shows up with the wilding woman if he does, and he's a deserter. And I think that then would have opened up another what if, which is if he goes to Rob, would Rob execute him? Because Rob, you know, was taught from the very first episode you execute deserters, and that's what his dad taught him. So then would he have executed uh John?

SPEAKER_03: 55:48

I don't think so. I think we talked about that, right?

SPEAKER_01: 55:50

Did we? I think we did, but I'm not I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_03: 55:52

I don't think Rob would do that, or maybe Rob was like, you know what, just go well, act like you're never here.

SPEAKER_01: 55:58

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Go to SOs and Yeah, Rob, it's not like Rob wouldn't break an oath, because he did. Yeah, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_00: 56:07

Yeah, I mean, and so did John.

SPEAKER_01: 56:10

So did John.

SPEAKER_00: 56:11

He didn't learn anything from Ned, just kidding.

SPEAKER_03: 56:15

You see, the thing we're talking about, if John was his advisor and he had slept with Telissa, John would have been awesome. You have to marry her because that is your duty. Not been like, you know what, just you know, that's fine. Don't don't worry about it.

SPEAKER_00: 56:31

I really don't have an answer. It's I don't I think this is honestly probably the best storyline direction for John, is what they did in the show.

SPEAKER_02: 56:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 56:41

Like I can nitpick everything else about the show, but this is I think one thing that I think that they did okay.

SPEAKER_03: 56:52

It feels a lot, it feels short. I mean, they came up. I mean, she was started the show like mid-season two, and it feels like she wasn't in the show that much, and she ended up I mean, she doesn't die till the penultimate of season four. But she's in the show for two full seasons, but doesn't feel that way.

SPEAKER_00: 57:10

I feel like she teaches him a lot, so it's hard, but I think that John did the right thing by leaving because he can't kill Innocence yet, and Egret can't go to Castle Black. She won't belong, even if she was accepted, she wouldn't be able to be do it.

SPEAKER_03: 57:27

No, she's too of a sh independent, strong. She wouldn't take crap for any of those guys, she would just probably kill like them all. And if they gave her any lip, then she'll be like smacking them and killing them like I can't be here. All right, so for the third question, we're going to kind of combine all our questions together because it sort of focuses on the red wedding, and the red wedding is the biggest what if question of all. It's like, what if John never or John Rob doesn't die? What if he doesn't go to the twins? What if he doesn't have that ridiculous plan of going to Castle Rock, which we make fun of? Like, what if he just doesn't he sticks to the original plan? So why don't we start with your first red wedding-esque question, Shan?

SPEAKER_00: 58:15

Okay, so for book readers, we know that Talissa and Jane Easterling are separate. I mean, they're the same, but separate. Yeah. Right. Different storylines, different backgrounds, and etc. But in the book, Jane Easterling doesn't go to the red wedding.

SPEAKER_02: 58:34

No.

SPEAKER_00: 58:35

So what if Talissa had skipped the Red Wedding?

SPEAKER_03: 58:40

You know, I wanted to just jump in and I'll have Minlois respond. We forgot to mention that the Westerlings were a vassal to the Lannisters. You know, there's that theory that West Jane Westerling kind of had maybe she had some input on the Red Wedding, and that's why that she didn't go. Anyway, I forgot to mention that they were sorry, I keep saying Easterling. Westerling.

SPEAKER_00: 59:02

Westerling, sorry.

SPEAKER_01: 59:04

Um like relocated her to the east.

SPEAKER_03: 59:07

Um yeah, that theory about her her family being in cahoots with the Lannisters, and that's why she wasn't there, and maybe she got a warning not to go. That wasn't the the question, but I just want to uh no, you're good. We we forgot to mention about the Westerling House when we did the Ross.

SPEAKER_01: 59:25

I feel like I feel like we mentioned that that in our episode.

SPEAKER_03: 59:28

No, I remember we didn't No?

SPEAKER_01: 59:30

No, no Oh okay if she skipped the Red Wedding and they killed Rob all the same and everything just like the Red Wedding went down as it was, then I could honestly I could just see her death. I I I haven't read um I haven't read the the fifth book yet, so I'm not sure, but I I don't I'm not sure how it goes in the books, but I could see them seeking her out and killing her regardless, because I don't see her becoming uh like a major character. Yeah, like Rispett. And no one everybody was mad that he got married to her. So they don't like her. They wanted her gone. They didn't like her. They they have no reason to kind of keep her around or or as you said, like respect her. So I think that the Lannisters would have sought her out and killed her uh regardless, especially because she was pregnant. Um and I don't think that the anyone from the North would have cared about it, honestly. I just see her death still happening. So yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:00:25

So I had a similar question. Yours was of what if she wasn't there? Mine is she wasn't there and she gave birth to Rob's kid. What would have happened to the North if his son or daughter would have been born and that could have and again, I don't know if she would have been respected. I think in the book, Jane Westerling, if she were pregnant, she would have had more respect because she comes from an honorable house. They would have treated her a little differently. I don't see them treating Talissa as a legitimate queen of the north. And then if Rob's child is born, you know, he's the heir, but then you would have to get a regent who's gonna be the regent if Catelyn's dead, like who would you pick? And then it would just open up this can of warms of okay, we have Tywins be like, okay, we're gonna have to figure out a way to kill this kid because if the north sees as a legitimate heir to the you know to Winterfell, that's gonna cause any problems. And uh that in the Bolton's claim on the north it becomes weaker if the kid is born. But I agree with Aminwal, I don't think they would have taken even when Rob was alive and he was with her, you can see they're like like giving her the side eye, like you don't belong here, like you're a foreigner, and it doesn't now that he's dead and the whole north is in shambles, we're not gonna listen to you. She would have just gone back to her to Valantis.

SPEAKER_00: 1:01:54

Where she came from. Yeah, but that's what I'm saying. I I that's my thought process is I feel like she would just go back to Valantis, and then she would have given birth to an heir, and it would be just Daenerys all over again.

SPEAKER_02: 1:02:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:09

Like born in you know, Easteros, and then you just have to find the the kid will just want to have it find its way back to Winterfell.

SPEAKER_03: 1:02:20

But he wouldn't have any dragons though.

SPEAKER_00: 1:02:22

He wouldn't have any dragons.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:24

And I have one last question for my what-if scenarios. What if Arya had made us in time for the red wedding?

SPEAKER_03: 1:02:30

So made it in time, meaning like she got to the wedding and she she meets up with Gatlin and Rob and she's a part of the wedding, like she's a part of the everything.

SPEAKER_01: 1:02:39

I mean, like she made us in time for the before the red wedding was single. So like she you could even say she wouldn't be there, like they would have kept her aside, or she would they would bring her to the wedding. Like she was just they met her before the red wedding happened. You know, or you could say like she I don't know, I what whatever you come up with, like she walks in on them at the red wedding. I can I'm I'm curious to see what were your first impressions from after hearing that.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:08

My only thing is yeah, I mean it would be nice if they actually got to see each other. Um maybe they wouldn't have been at the party for very long if Arya was there.

SPEAKER_03: 1:03:18

She would have been bored. Let's go.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:21

Well, like I think Catelyn would be so ecstatic that she had Arya back that maybe Catelyn wouldn't be in the same room. Maybe Rob and Talissa would have been, but maybe Catelyn wouldn't have been in the room. Like she would just be hanging out with Arya, you know? And then maybe Catelyn wouldn't die that way, but then at the end, you know, everyone dies pretty much in Rob's army anyway.

SPEAKER_02: 1:03:42

So Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:03:44

If the hound still was there, maybe he could get them. He's very, I think, um observant. And I feel like he would clock onto some things fast, and he would be like, Catelyn, Arya, let's get out of here.

SPEAKER_03: 1:03:59

I don't think he's he would be in the room though. I don't know if they let him in there. Like I like I don't see like what I what I'm thinking is like do the phrase are smart enough to go, hey, um take the child and put her to the side. We don't want to kill her. We'll use her as some kind of political, you know what I mean? Like the they could keep Arya, give her that's another like a prize to Tywin or something, or they they're just so dumb and they just kill everybody. Like that's my first thought is do they do they are smart enough not to kill her, or they just go F it, we're just gonna kill everybody. Maybe season seven Arya would have been cool to come in here. But like season three, Arya is still a kid, she has no training. So I mean, I don't maybe she has that foresight of maybe something's wrong, but I think she would have just ended up dead because those idiots are just dumb and and you know they're just they do what they're told, and and then that's pretty much it.

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:00

If the hound was with Arya though, somehow, like you know, if they weren't late and the feast was still going on because you know the hound was too busy eating all the pig to get there on time anyway. Um, I feel like the hound. This is best case scenario. If the hound and aria got in there and they both clocked on at what was happening fast enough.

SPEAKER_03: 1:05:25

I mean, he probably could have taken out a a a bunch of guys, but those guys with the with the bow and arrows on the top would have taken him out.

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:34

I I don't yeah, yeah, it's I just wish that he could get in there, get Catelyn, get Arya out. They could have said hi, bye, and then just she can't save Rob. Like they just can't save Rob and Talissa.

SPEAKER_03: 1:05:46

Yeah, the one thing I'm thinking about is how does he get past the guards? Because he's he wouldn't be welcome by the Slarks, or maybe he's welcome by the phrase, who knows?

SPEAKER_00: 1:05:56

Um, but without he had a cloak, so he could just been like, I'm the pork guy, I'm the pork guy, let me in.

SPEAKER_03: 1:06:03

But like without uh Arya, like his then his arc, like let's say he just drops her off. Then we don't see the hound again because what what's the point of the hound's character? His his arc completely is done. Like he doesn't fight Brianne, he doesn't do anything, he doesn't come back, and and so that that's one thing I could see.

SPEAKER_01: 1:06:22

I I see both of your points. I think that with Arya, it I know that I kind of framed it in a strict way and was like, just interpret it however you want, but I do think that the timing matters because um they could have uh hidden her away, but at the same time, like in and she just wouldn't have been a part of it, but then she would have been a very easy target for them to kill if she would uh already been there. My explanation is just that if they h hid her and she arrived before the red wedding actually started, then they would have just killed her because she was right there. It's an easy kill and easy target. But if she stormed in on the Red Wedding, which is not too out of character for her either, um, then I don't think much would have changed. She would have made it out semi-alive, or the wedding would have semi-alive, just like you know, like alive or traumatized. Um or the Red Wedding uh probably would have been on pause. Like though they had it all planned out, there would have been a a ruckus, you know, like they would have been like, Arya, what are you doing here? And they can't go on with a Norman wedding and they even the Lannisters themselves would have been, I think, a bit too distracted to not not the Lannisters, but the Lannister team, to suddenly just close all the doors. I think they would the one thing I think about is something could have happened. Yeah, I said something could have happened.

SPEAKER_03: 1:07:39

You had a question about Grey Wind that you want to ask, right? And this is kind of the red wedding thing. Like, I wish in the show they would have like maybe Arya and the Ham be like, we gotta get out of here, like something's happening, and she would have had the foresight to free Greywind and then take him. That would have been a cool dynamic of having but again, does Grey Wind go? Or does he like does he sense Rob's in trouble and he goes, you know, trying to get Rob? That could have that could happen too. But like I would have wish they would have had at least a moment, her freeing him and seeing where that goes.

SPEAKER_00: 1:08:16

So the the Starks can warg in the books. Can they warg into each other's direwolves or just their own?

SPEAKER_03: 1:08:23

Yeah, so here's here's the creepy sad part is that they're saying in theory that Rob is killed in the hall, but right before he's fatally wounded, he wars into Grey Wind, and then he gets killed, so he gets killed twice.

SPEAKER_04: 1:08:43

That's so sad.

SPEAKER_03: 1:08:45

Yes. So he does war like people saying that he did war into and then he just gets killed. And I don't know how that works. Like if they she may I mean I guess they would have been smart enough to bomb with another person, if or they would have just gone into the wild. I I don't know.

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:02

Yeah, because I mean Namiria's out there too, even though Aria's not with her. So I mean, I think it's possible. Um, I I wanted to kind of add to this. I just thought about it while Menwa was talking. Um, what if Aria and the Brotherhood Without Banners all went to the red wedding together? And I'm I'm I'm assuming that this is something that happens because of Lady Stoneheart, because someone has to bring her back. Like there must they must be close. Someone has to be the Lord of the Light kind of servant, you know.

SPEAKER_03: 1:09:36

Well, I mean, do you want to know?

SPEAKER_00: 1:09:38

Sure. I mean, I already have Lady Lady Stoneheart disposed for me. Like, I already know, kind of know, you know.

SPEAKER_03: 1:09:43

Well, they they find her in in the river. Like they throw like the phrase like cut her throat to the bone, and they just they they they did a the most disrespectful way of just throwing her in the river, you know. And the Tullies, their tradition is you get in the river, like they put you in that thing, that Viking kind of ceremony. So they in in a way it's a disrespect her even more. It's like they just dumped her in her body and then and then the brotherhood find her. So they don't know about the wedding until then. Um, what was the question? I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_00: 1:10:15

I got yeah, that's I don't know. I I find that hard to believe that they didn't know about the wedding at all, you know, though. So like I feel like if Aria had her little army of brotherhood without banners, but like how many how many were they though?

SPEAKER_03: 1:10:28

Like I don't know, like two dozen. Yeah. So I think it's better off that they didn't go to the wedding because their their arc in the book is much better, and which is uh let's even let's get to the questions that that you had one and I had. Let's just combine them. So I think your question is Lady Stoneheart, which is the I if you listen to this podcast, I've said Lady Stoneheart like a million times. Like, what if? Oh my gosh, the the the storyline. So my your question was what if Lady Stoneheart?

SPEAKER_00: 1:11:01

Mine's literally like the the question that is the end of the season, though. So do you have something that's before that?

SPEAKER_03: 1:11:06

No, mine is I'm gonna inject the aria being with the brotherhood without banner. So aria would have been with the brotherhood when she found her mother in the river. Okay, and how that could be what that would have done to her character. She doesn't obviously she doesn't leave Westeros, she doesn't become a faceless assassin, she stays with her mom-ish, whatever that mom is. And uh she she doesn't, you know, her then her skill sket is gonna be an archer, uh, she's gonna be a survivalist, she's gonna be maybe she gets religion. I don't know. A little bit of the light, uh, but she won't become this like mystical assassin that she becomes, and she doesn't have to endure the trauma of the red wedding, even though her her her mom and brother are dead. But then her and her zombie mom would uh with the brotherhood go on this revenge tour, the phrase and Lannister's, which would have been so dope.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:13

And for mine, mine was just the um so the end of the season ends with Daenerys um freeing all the slaves in uh oh what city is that?

SPEAKER_03: 1:12:28

Yunkai, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:12:31

So she saves the Yunkaian slaves. Yeah, they they're free. Um and it's there's it's the Misa episode, they're all saying mother, mother, mother, and then that's how the season ends. What if instead of that because we already get a di a season ending Daenerys in the first season, why does it always have to be Daenerys? I mean, sorry. No, no, no, no, no. Sorry, no worries. In my head, I'm just like, what if it would have been Lady Stoneheart? Lady Stoneheart in the river, and she comes back to life, and that's the ending of the if the creators actually went the magical way.

SPEAKER_03: 1:13:12

Which I I honestly, when I was watching it live, I said, here we go, here we go, baby. It's Lady Stoneheart, and then I go, Okay, season four. Okay, we got it. Season four, okay, season five. Here we go, and then after that, I'm like, Okay, they're not bringing her back, obviously. Um but that would have made sense. But do you know why D D didn't want to do Lady Stoneheart? Do you know why?

SPEAKER_00: 1:13:36

Probably some stupid reason, but go ahead.

SPEAKER_03: 1:13:39

Because they didn't want to have resurrection fatigue because they know they were gonna re-uh resurrect John. Well, if we do Lady Stoneheart, then then we're gonna have to do John. Like, okay, so what?

SPEAKER_00: 1:13:54

That's what the Lord of Light does, that's his job.

SPEAKER_03: 1:13:58

Like, they wanted to preserve, like, oh well, if we bring her back, then it's the red wedding, it's not gonna have the same impact. Well, yeah, it does. You're not bringing back Catelyn. This is a completely different character. Yeah, this is not Catelyn Star. This is Lady Stoneheart. We can't talk, she's just hell-bent on revenge. But that was their point, that was their excuse. Well, there's too much resurrecting.

SPEAKER_00: 1:14:23

Oh, so let's rewrite George. Yeah, let's do that, I guess.

SPEAKER_03: 1:14:28

Which that that's probably the biggest storyline that people complain about is this this point right here, because yeah, we we instead of having this methodical um revenge tour of the Frey's and Lannister's, we get the one scene of Arya in season seven in the cold open, where she poisons every Frey. And yeah, that was that was Lady Stoneheart right there. Let's make it up. Let's have this cool opening for the season and and have the Freys all die with Arya being a faceless assassin.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:01

I love that foreshadowing in that episode too this season when Bran is telling the story about the rat cook.

SPEAKER_01: 1:15:08

Yeah. Oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:15:11

And then it opens with like he says that story, and then Frey is eating and Bruce Bolton is talking to him. I was like, oh, the foreshadowing was there even then. That's okay. That's that's good. I wish that they planned it that much in advance.

SPEAKER_03: 1:15:25

So here's the thing with Lady Stoneheart as well. Like, when you don't have her, like if they would have included her in the show, then Brienne's storyline becomes a thousand more it becomes more intense because of what happens in the future and with Jamie, because remember, the last thing that Catelyn hears is well, in the book, she hears Jamie Lannister sends his regards. So in her mind it's Jamie Lannister. In the in the book, in the show, it says the Lannisters send their regards, right? So that's the one little change they have. So Lady Stoneheart is just like Jamie Lannister must die. Like, you know what I mean? So when anyway, I won't say what happens, but uh and then uh the phrase wouldn't survive so season seven, obviously, if she's alive. Thank, thank our boys for not giving us this these great moments.

SPEAKER_01: 1:16:22

Just in case our listeners are wondering, uh, why aren't you talking about a what if we're oh what if rob doesn't die? That's because we already covered that point in a separate episode dedicated to Rob Stark. So please check that out. Um, after this one, if you haven't seen if you haven't listened to that already.

SPEAKER_03: 1:16:38

I I'll say one thing about Arya and the Brotherhood. That would have been kind of cool because she would have been like the symbol or this rebellious symbol, I think. Like people would have followed her, you know what I mean? And what happens if people realize that Arya Stark is in the riverlands? Well that's what does that happen with with does that change Sansa's arc or at all? Does that change um like people knowing Ramsey, like because then they know that she's alive, she's an heir, like she could be in Windsorfeld. Does that change the north? Um I don't know, like because when it comes to Arya, I I'm I enjoy her and the book more, and and then like season five, I think season five, right? Season six, it kind of gets uh to the point where her arc is tedious. They're like, okay, like oh whatever. Like it her and like Tyrion in in the final seasons, like Tyrion is just there to make jokes and drink, like he has nothing to he's not adding any value to the story anymore.

SPEAKER_00: 1:17:52

Yeah, I I'm glad that you said that. Um in the book so far, I'm not in love with Tyrion or Arya, and I know that a lot of people it'll change, like people say that theirs are the best, you know, POVs. Um, but man, Arya's arc really makes me mad the whole time. I don't really like anything that she does in the show.

SPEAKER_03: 1:18:13

In the show, not okay.

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:15

In the show, but I haven't even really like loved her chapters yet, either, though.

SPEAKER_03: 1:18:20

See, in the show, they make Tyrion very lovable. Like you want to root for him, and then in the book, he's it's not a word, but I'm gonna say rootable. You're not really rooting for him, but you but but you like that he's so witty and sarcastic and smart. Uh that's why you kind of go with him. But he is dark when it comes to a lot in the book.

SPEAKER_00: 1:18:43

And yeah, when I I almost wish that Arya's arc would be with the Brotherhood of without banners over the faceless men. I I feel like that would have been a better storyline.

SPEAKER_03: 1:18:55

Yeah, I get it because you know we get some cool moments with Arya in the later seasons. But what were we thinking about when we thought of Arya doing the faceless, being a faceless assassin? The first thing we thought, she's gonna kill Cersei. She's gonna she doesn't she doesn't do anything like instead of the phrase, that's pretty much it. And then she gets uh revenge on Mirian, Mirian Trent, and um when he's in Esos, right?

SPEAKER_00: 1:19:23

Just her list for the first three seasons, you know, she's saying her list out loud, and she doesn't kill any like almost any of them the whole time. And granted, that's the Game of Thrones, people are gonna kill them before you kill them, you know. But uh, I don't know. It's just like why are you why do you even have a list of these people if you're not even gonna kill any of them on your list?

SPEAKER_03: 1:19:46

The guy who was torturing the soldier the the people in in Heron Hall, didn't she order what's this guy's name?

SPEAKER_00: 1:19:55

Jochen.

SPEAKER_03: 1:19:56

Does the doesn't she order Jochen to kill him first? So that's was he on the list? I think he was on a list, right?

SPEAKER_00: 1:20:05

At the very end, yeah. She added him at the very end.

SPEAKER_03: 1:20:07

So that's that's one person that she killed from the list.

SPEAKER_00: 1:20:11

She doesn't kill Ellen Payne. Like that would be the one where I would be like, yeah, kill him.

SPEAKER_03: 1:20:16

Yeah, what happens to Ellen Payne? I don't rem remember. I don't know either. He does he just doesn't come back in the shop.

SPEAKER_01: 1:20:24

I mean, if you want, you could say, like, what if what if Kat only survives instead of just Rob? But I don't know if that's like I don't know if that's even possible.

unknown: 1:20:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01: 1:20:33

Because they like lock the doors and everything.

SPEAKER_03: 1:20:34

So like if she were to survive, I think she would be with her surviving, I think she would have a better way to reunite the North. Because people respect Catelyn so much around the north. She might have been able to rally, that's what I was trying to say, rally people.

SPEAKER_00: 1:20:56

What if the blackfish died? What does he have to offer? Because he went out and went pee and then they never found him again, right? So far in the show.

SPEAKER_03: 1:21:05

Um Yeah, he shows up in season six when he's in River Run.

SPEAKER_01: 1:21:09

I was gonna say, I don't get why that wasn't a thing, why the why they never kind of expanded on the blackfish's role and why he wasn't the the the hand. Like that seems so logical. It seems like only natural that that would happen, and they just it just didn't happen. I I just I wonder why that wasn't a thing.

SPEAKER_03: 1:21:28

I think that's gonna be all for our what if portion of the podcast. Before we go, I wanted to ask Shan about her podcast, The Fellowship with the Mike, and what what should we uh expect in the future? I know you've kind of taken a little break, hiatus. Are you going to cover the new Game of Thrones show? Are you just gonna do any other show? Are you gonna focus on standalone uh episodes?

SPEAKER_00: 1:21:53

Yeah, so Lewis is taking a break indefinitely. He'll he could be back. He doesn't really know, and that's totally cool with me. So for now, I'm just gonna have some special guest hosts like I used to do, um, which both of you guys were guests on for that. So, right now, um, if you guys know campo.reviews, um well, actually, I think his handle changed a little bit. He had a Redux. So Campo.reviews.redux, he's coming on, and he and I are going to be talking about the Dungeons and Dragons movies. So, and by movies I mean the 2000 one with Jeremy Irons and Marlon Wayans.

SPEAKER_04: 1:22:33

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_00: 1:22:35

And then the new one from 2023 with Chris Pine and Michelle Rodriguez. Um, so that's what we're gonna we're actually gonna record right after this today, finally. So that's all I have lined up for now. Um, I have a few other people who are interested, they just have to pick their topics. Yeah, um, as for the A Night of the Seven Kingdoms show, I don't have any plans to cover it, but I'm more than happy to be a guest whenever you guys need me to, because I will be watching it, maybe making it a uh watch party type thing with friends, like I did for Last of Us, and that's it for now. So we'll see if and when Lewis will come back, and then this is the this is the plan for now.

SPEAKER_03: 1:23:19

So I do recommend if you all if you want is that you read the book. I mean, the book is 350 pages, and I think each uh novella is 110 pages. Like the first chapter is gonna be the first season. So if you just read the first chapter, you're good. But anyway, Chan, thank you so much for joining us for a third time. We know that this will not be your last, so we're happy about that. Um, thank you for talking, Game of Thrones. We've talked about the greed of this world, and people want to boycott this, you know, boyc uh cancel Netflix.

SPEAKER_00: 1:23:57

I have I have a big what if question for you guys.

SPEAKER_03: 1:24:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00: 1:24:01

Okay. What if Netflix redoes Game of Thrones? Oh no. No.

SPEAKER_03: 1:24:08

You mean like a reboot?

SPEAKER_00: 1:24:09

Completely redo it.

SPEAKER_03: 1:24:11

No, it would be silly because they wouldn't take it seriously.

SPEAKER_00: 1:24:15

I know, right? I mean but now they can, you guys. Now they can. It's in their ballpark now.

SPEAKER_03: 1:24:21

If they paid George a billion dollars and be like, okay, we want you to write every every episode and and be in charge, then maybe.

SPEAKER_01: 1:24:30

Like, but thinking about it now, like, didn't the last Harry Potter movie come out in 2011 and then Game of Thrones season one came out in 2011 as well? So it's like it's not too far fetched because it's uh even though the last season was 2019, like with how ridiculous studios are it's not an it's not impossible for that to happen.

SPEAKER_03: 1:24:49

And yeah, the one thing where Harry, but I hope it never does.

SPEAKER_01: 1:24:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03: 1:24:52

The one thing where the only difference with Harry Potter is that this is gonna be a show and not a movie. So I guess that's new in a sense.

SPEAKER_01: 1:25:01

Like they're what do they make it into a movie?

SPEAKER_03: 1:25:04

You mean Harry Potter? No, Game of Thrones, the movie, but it's not uh no, it's no a six-part movie. Yeah, and then it's just you see the way um stran oh, I wish I could talk stranger things. But so anyway, because it gets annoying me. Um have you are you do you watch it, Shan?

SPEAKER_00: 1:25:25

I watched three seasons, and then everyone was like, Oh, but you have to watch the fourth season, Vecca is so good, or whatever, and I'm like, no, I'm okay. It's all the same.

SPEAKER_01: 1:25:36

It's so bad.

SPEAKER_03: 1:25:37

You didn't like any other episodes?

SPEAKER_00: 1:25:39

No, I I mean I enjoyed one, two, three, but then when it gets repetitive and nothing changes, and it's the same thing over and over again, and then they try to nab me in with uh season four is so good, and I'm like, no, it's not guarantee it.

SPEAKER_03: 1:25:50

Yeah, I I think it killed a lot of his momentum by taking such a big break, and that it throws you off when you see these kids, adults. I'm sorry, not kids, adults in the show. You're like that, they were so cute 10 years ago. That's gonna be all for our 70 76th episode of Dancing with Dragons. To follow us on Instagram, go to dancing with underscore dragons. There we post reels, stories, uh fun polls, and any updates to the podcast you'll find there. If you want to shoot us a DM, go right ahead. We welcome any ideas for the future shows. Make sure to download our episodes in your preferred podcast platform if you don't mind. Share, rate, all that good stuff. Thank you again for listening to the podcast, and we'll see you soon. Peace out.