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Dancing with Dragons
Game of Thrones: S3 | EP10 "Mhysa"
For our review of the Season 3 Game of Thrones finale, we focus on the aftermath of the Red Wedding's devastation. Mhysa takes us through a realm forever changed by bloodshed and betrayal. The finale doesn't just wrap up storylines, it fundamentally reshapes the world we've come to know.
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Hello and welcome to Dancing with Dragons, your go-to podcast for everything related to Game of Thrones, house of the Dragon and the rest of George RR Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire universe. My name is Minna and I'm here with my co-host, tony, as always, and this marks the end of our Game of Thrones Season 3 coverage, as today we'll be discussing the 10th episode of a season titled Maisa. This episode follows the tragedy that is the Red Wedding, picking up where the last episode left off and sees the direct aftermath of the event In other parts of the realm. Bran and company travel beyond the Wall, sam returns to Castle Black, jon says goodbye to Ygritte, jaime returns to King's Landing and the Night's Watch asks for help from Stannis.
Speaker 1:We have so many characters and plotlines to talk about, but before we dive into the episode, we want to take a moment to thank you all for the love we received on our last episode on the Red Wedding. We're surprised by the reception pun intended as it's got, but I guess it was a long-awaited episode, since it's considered one of the biggest, if not the biggest, events in the entire show. So thank you, guys so much, and I hope you're here to listen to our coverage of the finale and let's discuss it. As I said, the episode is titled mysa, it's premiered on june 9th 2013 on hbo and it was written by david benioff and db weiss and directed by david nutter, who directed the most episodes of game of thrones, with a total of nine episodes across the series, including the previous Red Wedding episode.
Speaker 1:And let's start there. Let's start at the Red Wedding, the direct aftermath. Let's start with Arya. I really want to talk about it, but I feel like I just rambled on for a bit too much just at the beginning of this episode, so I'll pass the mic to you, tony.
Speaker 2:How are you and what do you think of Arya's scenes in this episode? Let's start with her I doing well, this was a hard watch, obviously not harder than the red wedding. Let's go back to the, to the podcast here. Uh, just the aftermath of rob's death or execution or whatever you want to say horrible ending, and catlin's, and I think in in that moment. This doesn't cry, doesn't scream, doesn't't faint, and it's the moment the part of her childhood and everything her hopes and of reuniting with her family is now done. A part of her died as well. That's not Arya Stark anymore. No family, no home. And now what is she going to do? If you're watching and reading for the first time, you're thinking okay what are we going to do with Arya?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think I saw an interesting comment which I was actually going to bring up at the end of the episode rather than now, but it says something like this episode kind of lays the foundation for a repositioning of all the characters. You know, like they're all kind of being moved slightly. Rather than their plot line moving forward in that direction, it's moving in another direction, and that's what you can see with aria right then and there, as you said, like when she sees rob's body in front of her with gray one detached, like that it's like the end of her, the end of life as she knew it, because she we saw it, I think, in the last episode right like she had hope that things would go back to the way that it was, and I think that's something that all the Starks kind of had. But you see, like all that hope kind of just die immediately with Arya and it is the beginning of a new chapter for her. The look in her eyes is very similar to the one that we see Sansa have in this episode as well when she hears of the Red Wedding, and it's kind of like a mourning, look like they're mourning the, the death of. You know their past and their life and their childhood and their innocence, but at the same time I think that, um, you can see hopelessness in both of their eyes as well. It's also what you see in cat's eyes when um rob is killed in front of her at the end. It's like where the last episode kind of just ended, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Right before Catelyn dies. You see her. I think that kind of one of the last images you see of the Red Wedding is Catelyn's hopelessness and her losing her will to live. You know she like kills the fray girl and then she just drops the knife to the ground. And then I think that emotion that we see in C caitlin, the last image that we get of her, is then transferred to both of her daughters in this episode, because it's not fully in either daughter, because they both end, you know they end up living, uh, and I think that if it was fully transferred that hopelessness to one daughter than me, it would have went to a more drastic uh conclusion for like a more drastic plot line for either of those characters. But I think that you see in both of her daughters in this episode them kind of not just mourning but losing any hope, any will to live, and I think that that was something directly transferred from Catelyn in the last episode, if that makes sense.
Speaker 2:Like it's brutal, it's very brutal and I noticed that in this scene is that it reminds me, it took me back to when Ned was executed at the Sept of Baelor, where Joran protected and shielded Arya from seeing her dad executed.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:But the Hound's like okay, just go ahead and see your brother, Anybody else will probably cover Arya's eyes and not let her see that. Yeah, the Hound's like you need to see the horrors of the war eyes and not let her see that?
Speaker 1:Yeah, it sounds like you need to see the horrors of the war.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you need to see that. You need to soak that in to make you a killer. Yeah.
Speaker 2:But let's go from Arya and let's go to the man responsible, or the men responsible for this other than Tywin, and it's Walder and uh ruse bolton, and it's funny that they're just kind of walder is more having fun with it and ruse is more he's more. Business is okay. I did this for a business reason. That walder did it because he's been chastised and made fun of his whole life like he's he's, he's been uh relegated to yeah, he's a lord of a, of a noble house, but they consider him like the stephead loser yeah, he's, he's a loser.
Speaker 2:if you ranked all the houses, he's house free will always be probably at the bottom of the barrel, and he's just laughing. Oh, they always treated me. All All these other Lords never respected me Ned Stark and Hostel and look at them now. I killed their boys and I have their, his son, here as a prisoner.
Speaker 2:I found it funny that this week and treasonous and cowardly man is all of a sudden he's brave because now he has the mighty Taiwan backing him and he can do whatever he wants, and now he's the lord of river run and blah, blah, blah blah, but in ruse, talking with him, we get to finally meet or not meet, but finally know who the name of dion's torturer was, because if you're watching for the first time, you don't know that that is his bastard son. I'm just gonna go through this because I want to get to king's landing and get through the unseen, because again, this, these were one of the hard scenes to watch. It's like, okay, we gotta watch it. This wasn't funny, but you have ramsey eating a sausage and go oh, wait, wait, wait, that's not you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Like it's yeah yeah, but it's so sadistic. And then they go straight to Bailon Greyjoy, who we haven't seen in a while maybe season 2 in Yara. And then he gets this letter from quote Ramsey and you know it's funny because you hate the Greyjoys and you hate and you hate Bailon, and it's just kind of like Bailon's hate bail on, and it's just kind of like bail on's reaction is not surprising. It's, it's cold, there's no grief for his son, there's no, it's just dismissal, like well, yara's, like this is your son, he goes.
Speaker 2:Well, he's not a man anymore yeah you know, like he's kind of making a joke and at the same time yara has that, at least she has the. You know she's kind of counterweight. Uh, she has, she's the emotional counterweight, like she's pissed, she's heartbroken deep down. That is her brother and she finds a way like she's defying her father, like her father's, like who cares me, I'm not going to give up all this land that I took. And we see the scene of her, you know, gathering the ships and all that. So in that moment Yara's character goes okay, she's going to tilt to a character we might like in the future that she has some kind of.
Speaker 2:Not so much, but it's tilting a little bit. You got to give her some credit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, mean I can't argue with that. I honestly didn't make a lot of notes surrounding any of the great choices episode other than that, like it's a nice, it's a new thread to follow. Do you know what I mean? Like it's not. It's been a while, I think, since we had a new storyline start. You know it's been the same players over and over again, like, I think, since the beginning of the show. So now it's kind of like oh, we're going to follow this semi-new character on a new quest. Basically you know what I mean. So it's like a new plotline added to the show which I mean would be interesting and exciting, especially if this is your first watch. But before we move on, I know you're in a rush to get to. Oh, sorry, yeah.
Speaker 2:I have one thing to say it also gives us another woman who is a badass. She can battle and she's going to lead forces and soldiers to get her brother. So I mean, that's a cool little thing and there's nothing to like. These men who are following her. They're not like, oh, we got to follow this. No, they follow her because they are loyal to her.
Speaker 1:I mean, though I don't like the Gators, I honestly can't argue with what you're saying. Obviously it's like a fact and it is like a good. It's a good thing ultimately, you know to say her inclusion, her being supported for that reason because people believe in her and she's a good warrior and all of that, rather than just being her right or anything like that. You know what I mean. Like it's, it's a good, uh addition. Like I can't uh argue that.
Speaker 1:I know you're in a rush to get to the king's landing uh part and I am excited to move on and I want to go into into those scenes as well. But at the same time I do want to make a couple of notes about the the walder fray scene, um, which is that when they're talking, uh, rosen and walder, they're like they were like, oh, but the black fish escaped, and when they said that it's made me so annoyed because that's ended up going nowhere, because in that episode it gives us hope during our first watch and we're like, oh, maybe he'll, he'll find Arya, and then they'll, they'll plot. You know, like if this is your first time watching the show and you didn't read the books and everything, you would assume that that would go somewhere really, really interesting. That he would. You know, he had a good introduction, he seemed like a good warrior, like this oh cool character, and that just goes nowhere. So listen, would we know that that would be a very underwhelming thread to follow.
Speaker 2:I don't think we see him till season six when Jamie goes to treat with him.
Speaker 1:And you said about Ruth that he was kind of very business about it and he was so emotionless, while they're talking about like he wasn't smug, the way Walder Frey was, and remind me of how Ruth was described in the books, where it's like he's so cold to the point where he sends shivers down your spine. So it's interesting because it's like in the books, rusev gives off the vibe that he's more of like a, like a cold villain, if that makes sense, like a cold villain from a Disney movie or something, not that, it's like a Disney universe.
Speaker 1:You know what I'm talking about like the kind of shivers in his mind because he's so robotic and he could be not human or whatever. And then in this, a very emotionless man that's like okay, our business is done and I'm going to report to Taiwan. It's a different kind of unsettling. I just wanted to make a note on that that there is a difference in how they're portrayed in the show and in the books.
Speaker 2:Okay, let's go south to King's Landing. We start with a pleasant scene, kind of like a palate cleanser Tyrion and sansa walking and shay behind peaceful interaction. It's very uh. They're talking about how tyrian is muttering names of these two lords that he wants to get back at and sansa's oh you, you have a list like to kill them, like a kill list. And he's like what do you think? I am Joffrey? And there's a cute banter between them over a prank that Arya used to do to Sansa that she would put poop in her mattress or whatever. But I think it is an important scene because it humanizes both of them and it kind of reminds us that they're trying to survive this circumstances that they were put into Like she, she, she reminded me of you in this scene because she didn't want to say a bad word, yeah, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:And the way he looks at Shay, like Lady Sansa, like he's being so playful with her and so careful and so respectful towards her. That it's it. I like the scene a lot. It kind of lulls the audience right, because then we're gonna get this emotional. You know, hammer dropped on our head. Did you notice the two girls?
Speaker 1:and podrick walks by because, oh, that's him yeah, and I knew you were gonna talk about. I swear to you, when I saw that episode of like tony's gonna make a comment, I forgot.
Speaker 2:I forgot about that.
Speaker 1:I because yeah, anyway well, yeah, but sansa, I don't think that she didn't want to say a bad word. I think the joke was that she didn't know what the bad word was I think, she thought that she was saying that word but she didn't.
Speaker 1:She like she was like that's this and that's why tyrian was like trying to laugh. But but yeah, I did really like that scene because they said it humanizes them and the way that I described it from my notes. I was saying it's them talking about and bonding over the fact that both of them are being hated and outside it's like they found common ground you know yeah yeah, Though like a bomb was going to be dropped on them very soon, Like you see.
Speaker 1:You see that they were both trying to make the best out of it and they were actually bonding though not romantically, they did, you know.
Speaker 2:They found something to talk about which is and it showed that maybe hypothetically if none of this would have happened, like if they were to have stayed married in King's Landing- yeah. They would have. Obviously he would have been with other women, with Shay and all that, but they probably would have had dinner every day.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:And talk. I remember when we did actually before I put the audio when we had our season two finale recap or look back we did a scene with Joffrey when he was acting kingly towards Margaery and the Tyrells, and we add the audio to the episode and we paused it. And that was the first time we paused audio to talk about the scene and we're going to do that again, so it's kind of a finale thing that we do. All right, before I put the audio, let me just set up the scene. It's a small council meeting.
Speaker 2:Tyrion is going to find out about Robb and Catelyn's death and of course, joffrey has to say something. He wants walter frey to send rob's head so he can serve it to sansa. And everybody's like haha, that's funny joke. Yeah, right, it's a joke, right. And no, he's like serious. He wants to like yeah, have her head, rob's head there. And then obviously, uh, tyrian's like she's no longer yours to torment. He says everybody's mind's a torment and they go back and forth and then we come to the part where Tywin jumps into the conversation.
Speaker 3:I am the king, I will punish you. Any man who must say I am the king is no true king. I'll make sure you understand that when I've won your war for you, my father won the real war. He killed Prince Rhaegar.
Speaker 2:He took the crown while you hid under Casterly Rock Joffrey's saying my father won the real war.
Speaker 2:It's kind of an ironic truth because, you know, technically his father wasn't his father, you know, and he's saying that he hid under costly rock and, however, joffrey's real father, jamie, did in fact play a major role killing of the mad king. But this scene is so great because once he says that, you hear the music build up and everybody's face goes from like it's kind of a dread because they know what just happened. They know that if, if it was anyone else other than his grandson, slash king, this he would have been.
Speaker 2:I don't know what would happen to him yeah the most powerful performance was peter dinklage, because it's silent yet very expressive, and he has this subtle shift of his eyes. He's looking at joffrey and then he just shifts his eyes to look at his father to see his reaction to it. Cersei is like, so scared of what's going to happen to him. It's a great moment because it tells you a lot, like it tells you that titles don't mean nothing without power and taiwan's authority isn't loud. He's. He's never gonna say I am hand of the king and you listen. Yeah, you'll never say that. He's quiet, he's calculated and he rules because he understands how to rule. Joffrey may wear a crown, but in that moment he's a child in a room with adults who know how to play the game.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And for him to be sent to his room like a child.
Speaker 1:That's exactly what they're sending a kid to his room.
Speaker 2:You know it's fantastic and you know Charles Dance is so amazing and he delivers that he just sits there and looks at him like very calmly, you know, go to your room, go to your room. Well, I do the real work in you know, making sure your kingdom is being run correctly. But also, like you know, jack Cleason is so good, too, playing that he knows how to play that tantrum perfectly. He's like, he's like a sport.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah, oh yeah yeah, like when I saw him, I was literally like reminded of moments where I saw like actual children in real life acting out. You know, I was like, oh my god. This reminds me of that moment when, you know, I saw this kid acting in this certain way. It was a great performance from from Jack Leeson. I have to give him credit there as well, not just the others in the room. But, yeah, you said something about like a title doesn't mean anything and I think that that's so true because I think the scene is a great representation of one of those scenes we always talk about them in Game of Thrones where every now and then you'd have a moment in the show where there's a lot that's unsaid, but everything that's unsaid is so clear. If you know these characters and you know their power like here, everyone knows in the audience and in that room that Tywin is the most powerful. Like when Joffrey says what he says, you can sense that he's like trying to convince himself that he's not afraid. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:He's trying to be like yeah, I'm brave enough to say this, but he's not.
Speaker 2:And then when he said you know you hid under a castle rock, there was a split second of him saying, oh shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:But then he goes like oh yeah, I said it yeah, yeah, like, let me pretend that I have the confidence to say this like and that's yes, I convinced himself. Like, yes, I am the king. I can say this. He is beneath me. You know what I mean. Like you can, you can see it in his face. So you can get that from joffrey, you can get that everything that we said about time, and from tywin and as well as everyone else in the room, the way that they kind of smartest thing to to quiet down even Cersei, you know, because she is not going to even defend her son there. You know what I mean. Like she, she knows that that's not the smart thing to do and she doesn't want to defend him either.
Speaker 2:So Cersei to her credit. I guess she tries to defuse's at the beginning she's like oh, stop, stop. You know talking about Sansa and and serving Rob's head to her at the wedding oh no, it's just a joke.
Speaker 2:And and talking about you know, tyrion and she, she knows that Joffrey is so out of his depth but she can't turn on him publicly. So she's like okay, okay, okay. So once he said go to your room, basically she gets like okay, okay, okay. So once he said go to your room, basically she gets up quickly and go okay, let's go. You know, we have so much to be joyful for a wedding and Joffrey's like I couldn't give two craps about a wedding, you know. And then, to top it all off, you know, actually, you know what? Let's just finish this, because I want to hear it one more time.
Speaker 3:The king is tired. See him to his chambers. Come along, I'm not tired. We have so much to celebrate, a wedding to plan. You must rest, grand maester. Perhaps some essence of nightshade to help him sleep? I'm not tired come.
Speaker 1:What's so great about Charles Dance or Tywin is that when he's looking at Joffrey he has that steel look and he doesn't even blink yeah, he doesn't, and it's like it's not the first time we've seen tywin like this, where it's like he's sending almost like a death threat you know what I mean to someone that's just with his eyes it's, it's so good and to say that he's tired is to say like obviously you're saying this foolish things because you don't know what you're saying.
Speaker 2:You're tired, you need to go to bed. So this scene and not ends. But once everybody leaves, tywin tells tyrian to stay and says not, you stay. And it's kind of reminds you of the scene in the season one finale, when they're in the riverlands that they're making plans and he tells tyrian not to leave and makes him the hand of the king and tyrian says you just sent the most powerful man in Westeros to bed without supper. Tywin replies you're a fool if you believe he's the most powerful man in Westeros.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the unsaid, it's finally being said. And directly after that Tyrion says a treasonous statement Joffrey is king. I love that moment because Tyrion is being so sarcastic, obviously, about it, and he's making light of the tense situation that just happened, you know, as he always does, trying to diffuse the tension, joking around and that's Tyrion. But at the same time I think that that conversation is probably the most lighthearted conversation Tyrion and Tywin ever had Tyrion and Tywin ever had, Because Tywin is still dead serious, don't get me wrong. But for the first time he's almost like humoring Tyrion and Tyrion's sarcasm, Like he's allowing the joke to exist.
Speaker 1:He's not dismissing it. He knows that Tyrion's sarcasm, I guess, works in this situation and it did diffuse the tension a bit. But you know, of course, it being Game of Thrones, it being Tyrion and Tywin, it all changes and then it turns into, I think, one of their toughest conversations we've seen.
Speaker 2:Tyrion is the only one brave enough to say you have something to do with this. Obviously, walder Frey is not smart enough or a courageous man to do this without any assurances from somebody. And Tywin's like yeah, that was me. Yeah, like yeah, that was me, yeah. The question is posed why is it more noble to kill 10 000 men on in the battlefield rather than 12 at dinner and and and? At that moment I think tyrian is kind of disturbed because he could see what his father has done and he understands. He understands the logic right, but unlike tywin, he values human life, he honors it and he would never do anything like that. You know, this question from taiwan is isn't just rhetorical, like it's kind of a statement for him, like he, in his eyes, power isn't about fairness or ethics, it's about hard choices that others won't, I guess, stomach like yeah, or like be willing to do uh yeah, so he doesn't care about.
Speaker 2:Oh, I have to uh respect guests. What is it? Guest rights?
Speaker 1:yeah, I guess right yeah in in one swoop.
Speaker 2:I mean technically, I mean, like I said, logically, it makes so much sense. Okay, I don't have to. None of my men die I, I didn't lose any resources. I had somebody, another weasel, do my bidding and I just took out the northern army.
Speaker 1:I took out one of these kings who was trying to dethrone me, not my stupid grandson I guess you kind of help answer tyrian's or tywin's question, like yeah, in a more logical way, in a cold way. If you think about it, yes, killing or getting rid of a dozen people of your enemies at dinner is maybe like less bloodshed than a thousand or ten thousand men in battle, but at the same time, like by doing that you are also like breaking the like something that is respected in their tradition and their culture. You know what I mean. Which is the guest? Right, I can say this and it's going to kind of be considered a moot point, but it damages his reputation. But at the same time, tywin is Tywin and nobody's going to mess with Tywin as long as he's alive. You know what I mean. Like his reputation can't be, like he's gotten out unscathed you know what I mean.
Speaker 1:Like no matter what he did he was never like um no, but I think there's like a villain if that makes sense, I think to the public he had nothing to do with it.
Speaker 2:It was all walter frey.
Speaker 1:Walter frey gets all the credit oh, it's true, that's true he's just, he just happened that's why he's happy giving walter frey the credits as well.
Speaker 2:It's a happy accident that, oh, look at this, I just somebody, just uh removed a problem I was having and I didn't have to do anything it's also like it goes back to then honor right, like why did ned do everything that he did?
Speaker 1:why do we see the starks operating a certain way instead of scheming and doing this? And that's because they have that, that code of honor within them. Someone with an honorable man would never do what tywin did. He would never just use someone else to to do their bidding and do something as as horrible as that's like you know.
Speaker 2:So it just has its honor. I just thought of something so like in season seven, when they have that um summit, and like a dragon stone and the dragon pit, you know, with cersei and everybody yeah uh, tywin would have just had them all killed somehow oh yeah yeah yeah um, let's stick with the scene because it's, it's brutal, it's heartbreaking.
Speaker 2:Again, it's feels like every time tywin and tyrian are together, taiwan figures out a way to dismiss tyrian or just break his soul yeah and this one it was kind of like tyrian is just saying what have you ever done anything that wasn't in the benefit of you? Oh yeah he's just like the day you were born. I wanted to carry you out into the water and let the waves wash you away. I mean, can you imagine hearing that?
Speaker 1:It's horrible.
Speaker 2:The line isn't just cruel, it's like a freaking missile to the heart to Tyrion's existence. He plainly is admitting that he never saw Tyrion as a son, only as a um you said it before too like a shameful burden that he he was forced to keep Tyrion because he can't get rid of his own son like I can't.
Speaker 1:I can't prove that you're not mine, so I'm gonna have to force myself to keep you around yeah, and I actually kind of want to make a note on the scene as well, because because before that he says a line that I think stuck with me a lot. He tells Tyrion the house that puts family first will always defeat the house that puts the whims and wishes of its sons and daughters first. A good man does everything in his power to better his family's position, regardless of his own selfish desires. And I can't really put a finger on why that line really stuck with me. I think it's because, kind of like in my part of the world a lot of people do maybe still think that way, like it's very different than Western culture. So I think that it might like in a way, weirdly resonate with a lot of people in our part of the world but at the same time acts like it's not his own selfish desires, but it's everything that he did.
Speaker 1:Even saving Tyrion, I guess, is still I don't know. I would say it's still for him rather than the family, because I don't know, I can't see it in me that Tywin was like I'm going to save him because he's a Lannister. I could see Tywin getting rid of Tyrion, but maybe, I don't know, is it like some hunch that he had. That told him kind of to save his one son because the other one's going to be in the king's garden, everything. You know what I mean.
Speaker 1:I don't know yeah but I I it's not a selfless decision that he made to save tyrian. I don't, I don't, don't. I can't see myself saying that that was a selfless decision. It's a. It's the. It's actually like I was gonna was a selfless decision. It's a. It's the. It's actually like I was gonna speak arabic, I was gonna say like it's the basic, obvious thing to do. You know what I mean. Like the fact that you ever even considered it shows that you know you're not a selfless person, because it's basic human decency yeah you know it's your son, what you're gonna do.
Speaker 1:Just because, like he looks different, you're gonna like it's. Oh, it's your son. What's your going to do? Just because he looks different, you're going to Like, oh, it's a big selfless thing, you did that, you didn't kid him. No, it's not selfless.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's normal.
Speaker 2:I will say that there's a couple more scenes in King's Landing, one that at first I thought was unnecessary and kind of weird, and then I thought about it a little more necessary and kind of weird and then I thought about a little more ago I guess. I guess it seems small and kind of stopped the flow of the episode but it kind of helped foreshadow, you know, tyrian and, uh, shay and varus is the scene I'm talking about, shay and varus, which is kind of weird, right. So we talked about the beginning of the, our coverage of season three, of how we felt about Shay and Sansa, like is she really helping her out? Does she really have her best interests? And we were like, well, maybe, and you're like, well, I don't know, I have to see. And all of a sudden you go from that to I love that girl, I will kill for her. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like really, maybe. I say maybe because I know deep down she knows that Sansa has no interest in Tyrion, yeah, and she realizes that Tyrion has no interest in her, so I think she probably has made peace with that. Any thoughts on that scene?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I did, like is this what you're trying to say? So, like, I looked at the scene being like I don't know what to make of Shay first of all, which is like I understand that she is genuinely in Sansa's corner and that's where it kind of starts, and Varys is kind of like figuring her out. At the same time, you know, varys talks to her and is basically trying to give her like a brutal, honest conversation and be like you will never have a place, you'll never fit in. And I think that that was genuinely just Varys looking out for Tyrion, because she interprets it completely different and she's like if he wants me to leave, he can tell me himself, because that's what Varys was telling her to do. He was like go live a better life in Essos or somewhere far from here, and she thinks that kind of maybe Tyrion said that.
Speaker 1:So if that's what she's saying or thinking, and if that's what you're trying to get at as well, like do you think that she betrayed him after this? Like, do you think that's because to me, like, I remember being like that's what I'm going to keep an eye out for this rewatch. I'm going to keep an eye out for when and why would she betray Tyrion? You know what I mean. Like when would it start? And I think that this is the moment that sticks out to me so far in the season, season three, that could have been the start of it, of her being like, I'm gonna be tritarian then, because this kind of is kind of giving her like a like an alert that she's not like a reality check, basically a reality check, and, um, it broke her heart a little.
Speaker 2:So this probably was like the first thing that led to her what was Varys' motivation in that, if it was his idea, like I don't get it.
Speaker 1:I don't fully get it. I think he was just trying to look out for Tyrion but at the same time, like Does he?
Speaker 2:really believe that Tyrion is the one that's going to be the leader of the country.
Speaker 1:And does he think Tyrion will be that distracted by Shae to the point where it's going to ruin his life? Like does he think that Shae will be another Tysha? You know, like I don't think that that was ever going to happen. Like I think that kind of Shae and Tyrion kind of knew each other's boundaries well enough by now you know what I mean Like Shay was happy with how things were.
Speaker 2:I mean if Tyrion wanted her gone he could have talked to Varys and say hey, let's figure out how to wait to, yeah, maybe get her out and, you know, set her up with a nice little bachelor, not bachelor pad somewhere. But anyway, let's go to Tersi. I'm like you now I'm combining names.
Speaker 1:Tyrion and Tersi. We're not on our idea. I just said Tyrion and Tywin would consummate their marriage. Please have another scene in King's Landing featuring him. And it's actually a very interesting scene that he has with Cersei because like they were kind of talking about where they are and it's kind of a very vulnerable conversation between the two and we've said this before where they did have a vulnerable scene, like a very emotional scene with one another.
Speaker 1:I think it's season two, um, like I can't recall exactly now. Um, but like this is another rare occurrence and cersei is definitely the more like I don't want to call her the more emotional one here, but I guess the more raw one in this scene, rather than tyrian, which is interesting because it seems out of nowhere, right, like if you just see her, because in the scene basically I'm just gonna cut right to it she talks about her children and she would literally admit to tyrian that if it wasn't for, uh, her children, then she would have, like, ended her own life and she says that's like the one thing that brings her happiness in her life. And she tells tyrian give sansa kids so that she can have some happiness in her life. And I think that Cersei here is just being 100% genuine. So it's a very weird, rare moment that I do appreciate, because you hear Cersei kind of reflecting on her life and her motherhood. It feels a bit out of nowhere but I guess maybe the whole small council scene kind of ignited it, because she was kind of embarrassed by Joffrey and got her thinking it's like how did he become the way that he was? Because then she goes on to talk about how Joffrey was such a joyful child you know what I mean and no one would have expected that, um, he would turn into what he turned into.
Speaker 1:So I don't know, I just think that it feels a bit, a bit a tad out of nowhere. But at the end of the day I still appreciate it because it's a rare look into Cersei's kind of mindset and her knowing and admitting that she's unhappy. And I guess, if I'm going to give a bit more context from myself in this scene, I think the reason that she opens up to Tyrion, of all people here, is because Jaime is still nowhere to be found. You know what I mean. Like this might be a conversation that you would have with jamie, I don't know. Like I know their, their conversation is more like, I guess, lustful than uh, than deep, but I don't know like it. Just it seems a bit odd and out of place, maybe because it doesn't seem to me like a scene where it's like oh, tywin went and convinced cersei to tell tyrian oh, oh, go and have children.
Speaker 2:And she's very confident that she's not going to marry Loras Tyrell?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah.
Speaker 2:She's like I'm not marrying him.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and Tyrion's like yeah, I said the same thing. Let's go up north and we're going to talk about Bran, hodor, jojen and Meera. And they get a surprise visitor or not even a visitor they get, which, of course, in these shows, these drama shows, they want to ratchet up the suspense and you think somebody's coming through the door and then it's the lovable Sam. Okay, here we go. Sam gets to meet Jon's brother, which I love that he knows it's brand. Right away he notices that he's in a wheelchair or he's not standing up, and then he puts two and two together when he sees um summer and he goes.
Speaker 2:I know a dire wolf, I've been around ghost enough that I know that's a dire wolf. And I just love sam because I'm gonna trust you and I'm gonna help you. That's what I got out of this episode. I mean, this scene with with sam is just like here's, here's how to. At first he's like no, no, we got to get you the nice watch, we got to get you the black. You know, hopefully john will come back, but you'll be safe there. And, um, it doesn't take too much convincing for him to go here's some dragon glass, we'll help you, even though technically he breaks the rules of the nice watch, which is what it's, a kind of a protocol. You're not supposed to uh, you're supposed to say neutral and you should limit contact with outsiders. You're not, and especially not let them through the tunnel and have them help them go. Oh, yeah, yeah, and and that's probably one of the rare moments that Sam breaks the rules- and he was so, as you said, I love how he was so enthusiastic about it.
Speaker 1:I was like, oh, I'm more than ready then to help you. But something that I thought was really funny as well was when they were talking about the White Walkers and everything. And then Georgian was like, yeah, we know about the White Walkers, nothing can stop them. And Georgian was like, yeah, we know about the White Walkers and nothing can stop them. And then Sam was like, but you're going to stop them? And then Brian was just like, please, sam, I have to go. And then, of course, did anyone stop them? Did Brian stop them? No, but anyways, I'm going to leave the season eight like bashing for when we cross that bridge.
Speaker 2:Was it a coincidence that Brian was telling the story of the rat cook or rat?
Speaker 1:king or whatever? No, definitely not. The rat cook yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, rat cook, and how the gods are punishing him for harming his guests under his roof, and his brother just was murdered in the same situation. So it's chilling. But anyway, we see Sam reach Castle Black and talk to Maester Aemon and the fact that he thought that that was Sam's child.
Speaker 2:But, how would you have a child? But anyway he tells her she's Craster's wife slash daughter, yeah, and he tells him to I love how enthusiastic Sam is for writing. He's like I guess, give me the quill he's so excited to like write all these notes to every lord in Westeros. He has to write 44 letters Because he goes yeah, we have 44 ravens.
Speaker 2:You need to send this out and he sends out the raven and then we see what the raven says. Because when we go to Dragonstone stone, you know davos sees the letter and now he's reading the correspondent correspondence. He's learned enough that he can now read it and I just love that shireen is still helping him. And can I just say I know I'm just going quickly, but I love that shireen is so fascinated with the targaryens and the dragons yeah, I do.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's not definitely not the first time we've heard her speak of them um dragonstone, but like, let's rewind a little bit, like, yeah, I, I do think that's really cool to see um shireen being interested in targaryens because it also provides, like, some lore. You know what I mean. It's not, it's always nice to hear a little bit of lore. That isn't just exposition, you know, drop or whatever exposition rambling as they say. I don't know what they say, but you know what I mean. But yeah, with Davos practicing his reading, like there are a few like, yes, that moment is very important for him at the end of the dragon's one scenes, but at the beginning, when he's practicing his reading, did you catch that what he was reading was a birthday invitation that Stannis received for someone's birthday?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1:Which I thought was hilarious, because who on earth would want Stannis of all people at their birthday party Like the most depressing person ever Like?
Speaker 2:at this point, there's no need to invite someone to invite you might as well get a blanket and dip it in water and just throw it on the floor.
Speaker 1:That's that yeah, I mean, and like, who's throwing birthday parties? Like, unless it was an old uh old letter that they received. Who who's throwing a name day slash birthday party in the middle of the war.
Speaker 1:I just thought it was like a fun, funny little moment from Davos and Stannis, but before that as well, we have like a tiny little scene between Davos and Gendry bonding over being from Flea Bottom, which was nice, because you never really see anyone kind of make that connection with Gendry, and I think that that meant a lot to the both of them, like it's kind of like okay, we're a seed.
Speaker 2:Now Gendry is like yeah, yeah, okay, yeah, whatever. And then, kind of you know, davos is naming all these little parts of Flea Bottom yeah yeah, yeah. Oh, okay, I guess you're legit, yeah.
Speaker 1:What I thought was really actually funny was that when they kind of get word that Rob died, you do kind of see Davos get freaked out a little bit by that news because he's like, oh, then it's work, then she is that powerful and this is real blood magic, because that's what we said the last time.
Speaker 2:Are you talking about Stannis or Davos? Because I think Stannis is still no, davos was shocked.
Speaker 1:Oh, like I think that he doesn't doesn't support her, but he was freaked out at the fact that rob died because the sacrifice thing just happened. You know what I mean? Like he was like oh, then her magic worked and she's a she's an evil witch.
Speaker 2:I don't know.
Speaker 1:That's the way I see that I saw davos in that scene. He was like I. Oh, then her magic worked and she's an evil witch. I don't know. That's the way I see Davos in that scene. He was like I don't support her and she's going to do this the evil way, the not right way with magic, and that's bad.
Speaker 2:I saw it differently. I thought I saw that he goes. Well, this is a war and people die Not just because he threw whatever in the fire. Well, this is a war and people die not just because he threw whatever in the fire. I think he turns a little bit when Stannis is upset and wants to kill him because he let Gendry loose.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Which poor Gendry he's going to be roaring for in the next few seasons. Remember he rose.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he rose for seasons sorry.
Speaker 2:I and also sorry, ladies and gents, when he sets him free he does say row until you reach rook's rest okay, I thought that was kind of a cool little thing. You know, when you're watching it for the first time, like oh, rook's Rest, okay, whatever. Now the House of the Dragon. You know Rook's Rest. You know one of our queens passed away.
Speaker 1:I didn't even catch that at all, but wait, there's something I caught and there's something I missed. So, first thing, I'll talk about the thing that I missed, which is that I actually watched the episode with the script, like while looking at the script, and so I have it like in my notes as well, and I misremembered the line that davos said because when, uh, rob dies, um, when sanis informs stan, when sanis tells davos that rob dies, davos says and you take credit because you dropped a leech into the fire question mark in my head overnight, the way that that's lying stuck in my head was this is it's because you dropped a leech into the fire, like he was accusing her yeah you know.
Speaker 1:So it was a misremembering moment from me, um, and my notes didn't help with that. But now that I'm looking at the the scripts here because obviously I had it since prepared, since since yesterday I'm looking at the scripts here because obviously I had it prepared since yesterday I'm like oh wait, the question mark is there. And he was saying why would you take credit for something that would happen? So your interpretation is correct.
Speaker 2:And Melisandre, she jumps on that. She proves that the power of the king's blood and the sacrifice it kind of reinforces her influence on Stannis and Davos is acting. He's the moral compass, he's, he saves gendry and challenges. I don't think it's the blind faith that stannis has to the lord of light. I just think that he sees this as a mechanism to help him become king and he'll, he'll, he'll, support it because it's, it's, even though he's I don't think he's agrees with it or believes it. As long as it's helping him, he's cool with it. And uh, he, he orders, that's, that davos be killed for treason yeah, yeah, yeah and that's when davos whips out.
Speaker 2:they're written from castle and it reads about the dead and all that coming. And then she throws it in the fire and the fire sees the truth and he goes. Well, you know what? Actually, don't kill him, he's going to help you in the future. Melisandre kind of saved his life, and that's what Stanislaus points out. The god that's mocking you been mocking, just saved you. Now you're a part of the religion, now you have to believe.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's true, and like something that I I mentioned the thing that I like missed, which was the question mark thing, but there's actually something that I thought was interesting and I had to look up a meaning of it, because when Gendry asked Davos, why are you doing this, like, why are you saving me? Davos says because it's right and because I'm Davos says because it's right and because I'm a slow learner. So I was like I'm a slow learner, like I kind of understand that we've seen that in the show, but why, like? How does that apply to why he's saving Gendry?
Speaker 1:And I think that the only explanation that I could um explain this line is the fact that, like, if he has doesn't know yet what's right and what's wrong, yet what's right and what's wrong, so he's slow to kind of bend his morals to, uh, the cold pragmatism of sanus I don't know who the author of that was. I saw that that was what was written online, um and he has not learned, in other words, to stay out of trouble. So it's like he has not learned, in other words, to stay out of trouble.
Speaker 2:That makes sense for for um, like a double meaning for this line yeah, uh, let's go back north, because I got all giddy and wanted to go straight to the dragon stone and talk about the raven, but we have to talk about john. We start the scene with john and all of a sudden it pans back and then we see egret pointing an arrow to him. I found that kind of you know I keep saying heartbreaking, but it is. You can see the her eyes. She feels hurt. I mean it's the, the betrayal because she loves this guy. There's no pleading, there's no speech, there's just I want to shoot you. It's not even. It's just, it's not even blind rage, it's like a quiet pain that you see in her eyes and yeah and I think, in all honesty, she could have killed him, I think.
Speaker 2:do you think that she shot him in those places on purpose, or was she trying to kill him?
Speaker 1:No, I think that she purposefully didn't kill him because she loves him too much. You know like she's so hurt, but she loves him so much that she can't do that. And I saw an interview where Kit Hrington said, um kind of the same, uh, something along those lines. He said that when he was telling egret, um, you won't shoot me, he wasn't sure if egret was going to shoot him or not.
Speaker 1:Like john at that moment wasn't sure yeah um, like he thought that egret could very easily kill him and he wasn't sure. But it was more like he was telling her or trying to convince her not to shoot him. Like you, you won't shoot me. Like, in a way, don't kill me.
Speaker 2:And trying to convince her yeah, um, I think other other shows would have fumbled that and they would have had egret say some speech I love you and blah blah you know what I mean, but this, this reaction and her action is so in par with her character that it's perfect.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, I mean, if you got that from her it wouldn't be Ygritte, right.
Speaker 2:No.
Speaker 1:And just to finish, the thing about Katerin's thing that I was saying is that he was saying that, yeah sure, John was trying to convince her, but I think that honestly, Ygritte maybe didn't really need any convincing at that moment. I don't think that she was ever going to um, shoot him just just um yeah, to answer your question of would she have, could she have?
Speaker 2:yeah, it's funny we have john reach castle black all wounded and then he kind of falls. It kind of reminded me of um aragon and lord of the rings, the two towers when he gets to Thelm's Deep.
Speaker 2:But yeah, we have there's a lot of arrivals here a lot of people reaching their destination. You have Jon finally getting back to the wall, to the castle block, and then we have Jaime and Brienne getting to King's Landing, which is just a very short scene. We see him with this cut off hand. We see Cersei he jumps in the room and he looks at her. They look at each other. It's just a very short scene. We see him with this cutoff hand. We see Cersei he jumps in the room and he looks at her. They look at each other. And that was pretty much it, so we don't get to see the interaction until season four, all of Jaime's scenes amount to maybe 25 seconds.
Speaker 2:It's not that much in the episode, maybe a minute or so. Yeah, because that's a while.
Speaker 1:Yeah yeah.
Speaker 1:Let's say a minute, but there's a wall, yeah, yeah, uh like let's say a minute. But even so, I think that there was a lot of like unsaid things. That's a lot, but like a bit of unsaid things between jamie and cersei there. Um, you can see the shame in jamie's eyes when he kind of appears because his uh like a cut off hand or like arm is in front of him, a spandage, you know the way, like a broken arm would be. It's in front of him, he can't hide it. So, uh, his messy appearance and everything plus the broken hand, is the first thing that uh, that cersei sees. So I I wasn't really focusing on cersei here, I was trying to make out the look in her eyes. She kind of like if I would describe it, would say that she looks like she's seen a ghost, like she was never, like she wasn't considering jamie at that moment, or the possibility of jamie's return.
Speaker 1:So she's like shook, to use that word. But uh, I thought it was really interesting and a bit heartbreaking to see the shame in jamie's eyes yeah, she probably never seen him in that state obviously no hand beard dirty.
Speaker 2:Hasn't probably showered in months or probably the last showers when he was confessing or the monologue. Uh, so yeah I mean.
Speaker 2:That's why he's ashamed as well, not just because of his hand, but because he's in the state that he's in yeah, all right, let's go to um vessels, let's go to yunkai and let's talk about why this episode is titled misa. So before we talk about the scene, I'm going to say that this was my least favorite scene of the episode. Not because of what it was, it's because I felt it wasn't earned. This is such a major turning point in her arc and it felt like a snapshot the previous episode. We don't see the battle.
Speaker 2:We see the top and then all of a sudden we get to the gate and they're just yelling out mother and misa and all this in this ancient not ancient language, but a different language. So I just think there was. It wasn't fully fleshed out and there wasn't an emotional payoff for me and I think the scene was so short and why leave it to the end? It kind of made the episode a little imbalanced, because you have all this sorrow and all this emotional stuff that's going on and all of a sudden all this happiness. I've never seen Daenerys smile that way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, yeah, you know what I mean.
Speaker 2:So that's the only reason I like this, this okay, I like the scene, but I think it wasn't like worthy of it being the last scene of the episode. It could have been the first scene for me okay.
Speaker 1:Oh, it's interesting that you said it could have been the first scene because, like, I don't want to like go off the topic direct for a second, but if this wasn't the last scene, what scene would you think would have been a good last scene then?
Speaker 2:I mean we could have had Jamie or even something with Bran or even Jon reaching the wall, but also again, that was another scene, that was one second and there's a lot of really short scenes Like King's Land. They took the bulk. Yes yes. Again of the episode. I get why you know leading with. I mean she's the final shot of season one, the dragons, the final shot of season three. I forgot what's the final shot of season two? I forget. Oh, it was the White Walkers.
Speaker 1:What's it? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the final shot of season two was the White Walkers. So the first three seasons you get Daenerys as being the final shot. I'm just saying I felt it was a lackluster. We could have had more with her earning this title, other than like I just arrived here and then you're liberated. We could have had scenes of her talking with these people, like having not kind of a marjorie going to flea bottom yes she's talking to. She's talking to. You know, the lowborns or whatever. I don't know what. What's your take on it?
Speaker 1:I hate to say that I agree, but I do, because I think that when you said the thing where there's no emotional payoff, and it is true because it's supposed to be an emotional moment for Dani, but it's not an emotional moment for us, the viewers, like when she got the Ansali, that was considered one of the other best moments of the series, because we see her in her journey to getting them and we see that she is actually bettering their situation. You know what I mean. Like we see the justification for her action and we see her intention and of course, her intention is to get an army. But you know, we see her, her mindset, you know the classic Danny mindset of being like I'm not going to force them to work for me. It's going to be of their own free will and they all choose to serve her, obviously.
Speaker 1:But there is an emotional payoff there because we're proud of her and we feel like you know she's doing the right thing and we know that she's going to do the right thing. And of course, it's like there's it's a spectacle and epic, and you know like yeah, fine, but there's nothing. And when it comes to yun kai you know what I mean I think that it's just as you said. It's like it feels distant, you know, it feels like we can't. It's an accomplishment, I guess, but you can't really consider it's an accomplishment because we don't feel we don't feel it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we didn't get to dive deep into her like, uh, doubts, yeah, fears, and then and also it feels too clean and tidy and the it's a victory celebration and, like I said, compared to the rest of the episode, which was brutal yeah, so it felt off kilter yeah, and I think that I, like, I would I don't I'd hate to like say this, but amelia clark was smiling a bit too much, uh, in that scene, just because why would Danny be that happy?
Speaker 1:but at the same time, like, I do want to talk about Danny and her intentions here because, um, you know, this scene got a lot of criticism right we talked about this even before recording um, where it's like they consider this a scene that was heavily criticized because, like label Danny is kind of like a white savior, right, and has that stroke that we've seen. But I think that there are some things that I cannot to always be like a danny defender, but you know what I mean. Like there are some it does. It's not a good look, definitely, but there are some scenes where, um, or like some things about it, that kind of should be taken into consideration as well when considering those criticisms, which is that, right before the the, like the gates were about to open, we can see that danny has dashed, like what if they don't want to be conquered? Like she's not doing this just to gain power. She's not like a, uh, power hungry, mad queen. You know what I mean at.
Speaker 2:Uh, you know like let dan and dave season eight era yeah, hear this, but uh yeah, but jorah does have a nice comeback and says you're not conquering them, you're liberating them see, but that's the thing it's like.
Speaker 1:it sounds nice, but to me I think that that made it worse, because when you hear him say that it feels like it's called, it brings to mind real world things that are iffy, so it paints Dani in a bad light to us, the viewers, even though he is right. Like it's an iffy line to hear, because when you hear that you're like, oh wait, maybe Dani's actually wrong for doing this. But she's having those same doubts as well, you know.
Speaker 2:I think that it would be that, if you're talking about, if this was something that she first did, that she's like oh, I just want to liberate somebody, but she's been in this path of of liberating and and and getting rid of slavery. You know, it's been building throughout already, for the season or whatever, so it wasn't like all of a sudden, it just yes yes, up of. Oh yeah, I'm just going to be your savior and she wants to do it like it's not like she's doing that just because she wants to get some good PR.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, and like that's the way that Jorah sees it, I think, right, Like I think that you know oh my God, this rewatch.
Speaker 1:I'm hating Jorah so much for some reason and it's so interesting because I just he annoys me every time I see him, but he sees it in that way I think you know what I mean like he is the type of person that would tell you would do it for the PR of it all.
Speaker 1:But for Dani, you know, as you said, we've been building this um, like character for so long, this intention within her, and we know that when she's doing this, she's not doing it for herself, she's doing it for the people. We know that. That's actually why, where she's coming from, like there is no selfish, selfishness in it. Like, even though there was some maybe in the past, like when she got the Ansari, like she did seek to gain something from it. Here, she doesn't seek to gain anything from it. You know what I mean. Like she just genuinely wants to serve these people and she's thinking of their wants and needs. So she did do even though, like it's been labeled as like icky or like white savior-ish, dani for them did do something positive. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:Like she did have a positive change for these people, like it was the positive thing and in hindsight, when you see what her character does in the future, you know that's not the case yeah um, yeah, it's a bummer, that one. The scene is so short like I'm looking at, I'm re-watching and I go. There's only four minutes left yeah, it's just like they're gonna do this in four minutes and before we wrap up.
Speaker 1:Before we wrap up the episode um, did we mention aria killing, the guy that killed rob?
Speaker 2:no, and it's funny because I completely forgot about her killing a fray before I thought season. The opening of season seven is when she kills all the phrase. And this guy, this guy is one of those bullshit artists who the heck even knows if he was even there. He's one of those guys like, yeah, I was there and I'm the one that sold the head on, and even like even his guys, his other, so you know, guys, the friends that were there, like right, like everybody's gonna claim now that they were there you know, every guy's gonna say that he's the one that did it.
Speaker 1:So yeah.
Speaker 2:So it's kind of a funny thing and I just I completely forgot, uh that aa just goes up to the dude and just starts, just starts stabbing him. And it's so funny how it's like just he doesn't even tell her that she did anything wrong. She just said just give me a heads up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah. And what I love about it too is that it shows Arya kind of figuring out how to maneuver in this world already, because she doesn't just go up and like stab them. She like acts like she's in need and then she pays them because she knows that money is going to help her and like would be beneficial to these or like attractive to these people you know, like, and then she stabs them. So it was a very interesting scene. And then when he said, the hound asks her like is that the first man that you've killed? Ary asks her like is that the first man that you've killed? Aria says yeah, the first man, because obviously we've seen her kill someone else before, but he was a child, so that was a nice call back yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:So it's been crazy that we've started this little season three journey three months ago. I mean, uh, we're here, season three finale. What do you rate this before? I ask you? I think we. I don't know if you have the same favorite scene as me, I'm going to say the small council scene.
Speaker 1:Same.
Speaker 2:It's the standout, okay, so all right. So what do you rate the season three finale?
Speaker 1:I'll give it a nine.
Speaker 2:Okay, I agree with you. I'm going to give it a nine. But what about rating this finale with the others? I'm going to say the season one finale is still the best one. Yeah, finale is still the best. The best one, yeah, because I I think the it is so good, and also that it ends with daenerys and the dragons, which is such an iconic shot, and season two ends with the white walker. So I'm gonna say one, two, three season finale ratings, um I might say one, three, two okay, so how about we wanted to do top three episodes of the season?
Speaker 2:Okay, so what is your? Will you want to give me your three, or your three and two, and then we'll unveil our one.
Speaker 1:I forgot to do this, I forgot to prepare it.
Speaker 2:So I'm going to give you my number three and my number two. My number three episode of the season is going to be episode five, Kissed by Fire, and then my number two is going to be episode four Now His Watch has Ended, I think Kissed by Fire. I put that because that's where Jamie tells the monologue.
Speaker 1:Okay, I was wondering if it was that or if it was.
Speaker 2:John and finally do the thing. Okay, okay, okay, okay. And the how? I mean the there's a lot of good stuff that happens on the episode okay, so can I just copy you okay because, like I, I tend to forget what happens in each episode.
Speaker 1:But like I don't know if you're gonna cut that, but you helped remind me which big events happen in which episodes and all the important events happened in the ones that you picked. So I'm like are the important events to me? I guess were the my favorite parts. So the jamie uh moment happens in um episode and kissed by fire and I thought it was.
Speaker 1:For some reason I confused it with the bear and the Maiden Fair, even though that happens later. I associate the Bear and the Maiden Fair with Jamie and Brienne, so I just got confused. But yeah, I'll just copy you for those two and obviously for number one.
Speaker 2:You're going to copy my okay, road wedding number. I'm going to copy you, yeah, Okay, the tougher question Top three performances of the season of the season yeah, uh, michelle fairley and amelia clark, obviously, and um are you ranking them or just give me your top three?
Speaker 1:oh, I'm just giving okay, I'm just giving. Uh, actually I'm I don't know if I want to maybe sophie turner, but I really want to include Charles Danson there as well. I might replace Emilia with Charles, just because I feel like this was a very Tywin prime season as well. So yeah, top four. Those are my top four. I'm going to cheat.
Speaker 2:I have the same. Oh no, I actually have Charles Danson, peter Dinklage, michelle Farrelly. I'll give a shout out to Lena Headey and Diana Riggs no-transcript. Also I'm going to. I forgot her name, but Natalie Dormer. Yes. Okay, I'm going to give her a little shout out. I think she just plays that perfect role, you get a shout out.
Speaker 1:You get a shout out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, everybody gets a shout out. Alright, get a shout out. Yeah, everybody gets a shout out, alright. So we're going to rate the season. I don't remember what we rated season one and two. I'm assuming it's like a nine right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would assume so.
Speaker 2:And I have proclaimed before we even started watching season two that I've always said that season two was my favorite season of the show. And I think I'm going to change my mind now because, after watching season three, I'm going to say season three had more, um, heavy hitting, great dialogue, great scenes and obviously, one of the shocking episodes of all time. I'm going to give season three the edge for now, uh, as my favorite season of the show, and I'm going to give season three like a 9.2 out of 10. I think every episode was really good, the one episode that if I were to say my least favorite would be the second one, dark Wings, dark Words. But every other episode was pretty legit.
Speaker 2:So, yeah, I'm excited we're not going to do season four for a while. Um, so I'm gonna try to reread storm of swords. I know you did and I always may not make fun of you, but I was just kind of teasing you and look at me. I I just dropped the ball and I heard somebody asked me you should do more book stuff included, and I think we want to separate that for now. We'll do the show with the show and because we could use book material as content, which we're going to do.
Speaker 2:Yes, which we're going to do, but we're going to use that for future episodes and because we do want to go back and talk about Ned's death and Baelor and Blackwater, and you know, when it comes to the book, and we also said that we want to talk about the downfall of Robb Stark, which I think would be a very interesting episode to get into.
Speaker 1:And speaking of Robb, I actually have a funny note that I found in my notes for this episode that I forgot to talk about. It's something that you mentioned before we started recording. Um, so in my notes I wrote Rob head equals Ned head. So Rob's uh wasn't really his head, but like the way that his corpse was in this episode reminded me of like seeing Ned's uh head on a stick on like the the end season, the season for finale of season one, just like it reminded me of that. And you mentioned also how this finale is like very reminiscent of the season one finale as well. So I just thought that that scribble Rob Head equals Ned Head made me laugh, so I just wanted to include that. It's like one of the last notes. So, yeah, when I got to the end of my notes, that was what was written there.
Speaker 2:And it's kind of funny because I do enjoy not funny, you know, I really enjoy doing these episodic reviews Because one it gets me to watch the show again and I go. You know, this is our. We're going to year three of our podcast already and I was like we've already done three seasons. I don't want to go too quickly and I thought I don't think we will, because next year we're gonna have a lot of content to review and to go over, especially with uh duncan egg and uh hostile dragon, season three, which we haven't really talked about and we will be talking about soon in our stand-alones where we'll we'll get everybody caught up to all the gossip that has been going on with the actors and and the shooting schedules and all that. So, um, yeah, I was a fun, fun return to season three and I and I think that season four is going to compete. I think I remember season four is so amazing. I think season four has the most episodes, that is over nine on imdb okay I think it has like six.
Speaker 2:So I mean, the last four episodes of the of the season is like bangers you have, you know. So it's gonna be great. And then we're gonna get one of our, my favorite characters in Prince Oberyn Yep, which is funny. I was trying to listen. I'll tell you something. I was trying to listen to the Small Council chapter, okay, and I could hear the narrator say oh, tyrion has to deal with Prince Oberyn and his crew, so Prince Oberyn is already in King's Landing. He should have been there already in season three, but anyway, I'm rambling here.
Speaker 1:It's because you don't want to let go of season three.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't want to let go of it. So what did you rate season three? I'm sorry, did you say it?
Speaker 1:No, I don't think I did. Okay, go ahead. I think maybe I'd give it a 9.5 is a bit much, but I honestly think that's such a great season, so why not? Let me be generous today, because last episode you told me I wasn't generous enough for the red wedding, so let me give it a 9.5.
Speaker 2:All right, Actually, you know what I was going to do our outro but we had a question from Caden Crippen, who's been sending us questions. So thank you, Caden.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 2:His question is which is a good one Would Roos and Walder have eventually betrayed Rob regardless of Tywin's backing?
Speaker 1:I think if Tywin wasn't involved at all, then no, because they need to be tied to someone stronger than them.
Speaker 2:So yeah, and the only reason why he did that is because he got Harrenhal, he got Riverrun. He's called the warden of the Riverlands. He wants the titles, he wants the respect. I don't think he would have hashed his plan to say I'm going to get the St but if there was nothing in return. So I think without Tywin he doesn't even fathom doing this. How about we say goodbye to season three? Minwa, are you ready to say goodbye? We're finally going to put it done and get out of here. I'll let you go to bed because it's pretty late over there. I got to thank Minwa because she's a trooper. She is stale. I don't even know how you do that. You're still a young lady.
Speaker 2:That's why I can't even imagine recording. What time is it over there right now? Two in the morning, one.
Speaker 1:One.
Speaker 2:One. Yeah, I would be like being smart already. Anyway, we want to thank everybody for listening to Dancing with Dragons, our 71st episode. We really enjoyed taking a trip back to season three, breaking down all these unforgettable moments with you. If you liked the episode, please make sure to follow and rate the podcast. To follow us on social media, go to dancingwithdragons. For our next episode we'll be diving deep into the heartbreaking downfall of Rob Stark, so stay tuned for that. Until then, keep dancing with dragons.
