Dancing with Dragons
This is the official account for the Dancing With Dragons podcast!
Follow along as we dive deep into the epic fantasy world of Westeros, discussing the intricate stories from George RR Martin, our memorable characters, the ever-changing power dynamics, and episode breakdowns, among many other insightful and fun discussions. Whether you're a devoted GoT nerd like us or new to the books or series and its spin-off, House of the Dragon, this podcast is your ultimate companion in exploring the Seven Kingdoms.Tune in and subscribe on your go-to listening platform.
Valar Morghulis
Dancing with Dragons
Game of Thrones: S3 | EP7 "The Bear and the Maiden Fair"
For the 68th episode of Dancing with Dragons, Minwa and Tony delve into Jaime Lannister's redemption arc, as it reaches its critical turning point when he risks everything to save Brienne from a bear pit, highlighting the show's exploration of honor and transformation. We also analyze this pivotal episode, written by George R.R. Martin himself, and see how characters across Westeros and Essos navigate power, love, and survival.
Follow Dancing with Dragons on Instagram
Follow Tony on IG: Sirtone_Reviews
Follow Minwa on IG: TheArabKhaleesi
https://dancingwithdragons.buzzsprout.com
Email us @DancewithDragons62@gmail.com
I thought you were gone Tomorrow. Have they told you what they plan to do with me? Lord Bolton's travelling tomorrow as well. He's going to the Twins for Edmure Tully's wedding. You're to remain here With Locke.
Speaker 2:I owe you a debt.
Speaker 1:When Catelyn Stark released you, we both made a promise to her. Now it's your promise. You gave your word, keep it and consider the debt paid. I will return the Stark Ghost to the Mother. I swear it.
Speaker 2:Goodbye, sir Jaime. Hello and welcome to Dancing with Dragons, your go-to podcast for everything related to Game of Thrones, house of the Dragon and the rest of George RR Martin's Song of Ice and Fire universe. My name is Manoa and I'm here with my co-host, tony, and today we're continuing our journey through Season 3 of Game of Thrones with a deep dive into Episode 7. If you listened to our last episode, we finally returned to our recaps after a bit of an unintentional hiatus as life caught up with the both of us, but it's so good to be back. Today we're covering the Bear and the Maiden Fair, episode 7. It's named after a popular song in Westeros, but here, of course, it refers to a huge scene in the story featuring Bran of Tarth.
Speaker 2:This episode premiered on May 12th 2013. It's written by George RR Martin himself, so you know it's going to be dialogue, heavy and weird, and it was directed by Michelle McLaren, who you might recognize from her excellent work on Breaking Bad. She would also go on to direct episode 8 of this season, second Sons and episodes 4 and 5 of season 4 of Game of Thrones. Just going to give you a quick refresher as to what happened in this episode so we're able to dive into our recap and have you all caught up.
Speaker 2:In this one we see Jon and Ygritte share some tender and tense moments. South of the Wall, robb and Talissa talk legacy. Sansa learns yet again that her life is not hers to control and nearest lays down the terms with yun kai. I mean, I'm so glad to see danny again this episode. We didn't see her in the last one. I kind of want to just jump right into it and talk about her, if you would let me, tony, but I have to ask you first how are you and I'm ready to talk about the episode and danny- yeah.
Speaker 1:So let's, let's go, let's start with your girl.
Speaker 2:Yeah, my girl. So here we get a very interesting scene with Dani. She's going to Yunkai, which is another slaver city, and you know she continues her crusade to free all of the enslaved cities and slavers in Yunkai and she's meeting with the Yunkai representative. It's a very interesting scene for Dani, as I said, because she comes off as very confident. I think you know we see her in her first kind of political meeting. I guess since she acquired the Ansar Eden.
Speaker 2:She felt like that young Dani from the books, because we do get the sense, you know, we feel in the books that she's younger than she feels like on the show. And that's the kind of Dani that I got in this scene, because she's very intimidating but very young. And you can kind of see the Yunkai representative I think his name was Razdel Mo'iraz. We see it in his eyes too, where he doesn't really take her seriously, but then he's also really scared of her dragon. So he is intimidated, even though he kind of doesn't want to admit it, because she's soft but assertive and sure of herself in this scene and they have like an exchange of offers. You know she obviously wants to continue like freeing the slaves and they're, just like you know, like please leave us alone, that's it. Honestly, if I have to like kind of maybe criticize daniel would be a bit objective that that's not a bad option for her if she did that honestly just because, we know that slaver's bay would have.
Speaker 2:You know, it's like it ends up being enslaved again. I don't, I don't think anyone realizes at this point. Jorah maybe kind of does, but he doesn't really give her the best advice, doesn't put it into the best words. He kind of tried to advise her earlier on, but then she makes a counter offer and she says that she'll spare the lives of the slave masters if every slave is set free and is like given fair treatment. And then he, he kind of looks at her and he goes you are mad. And I, I kept like an angry little doodle of an ex to it because it's like now they're going to be like, oh, this is the seed of her being a mad queen and everything, but it's like no, she came from a very pure place here.
Speaker 1:Do you think that these people know the history of the Targaryens and about her father, or are they just learning this right now? Or they're just learning this right now? The one thing I noticed about Astapor or, I'm sorry, not Astapor Yunkai is that it seems very much more sophisticated than Astapor, Like they have. He mentions he has rich and powerful friends and, you know, trying to intimidate back while she was intimidating him.
Speaker 1:For me, this scene is great because she's no longer just reacting, she's dictating terms yeah she's not waiting to be told, she's just there and you feel the balance of power has shifted and she kind of knows it. And this meeting shows increasingly comfortable and wielding authority, without asking anybody, without apology, and jorah's there just to. He's not giving her any concrete advice in my opinion, and it's just like he's to me. He's being ignored and he's not helpful at all, In contrast to Berenson, whose presence is just like a bodyguard but he still feels justified being there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and there's a moment with Berenson here that I love. This is, I feel, like a true Danny moment. Jorah, kind of it's unknowingly jorah and says the yunkish are proud people, they will not spend. And then danny just looks at them and says and what happens to things that don't spend? And jorah just has the like, the worst look on his face while sir baristan tell me chuckles and winks, like it's a very blink and you miss it moment. It's so subtle and I love it because you just see how sir bernstein like is so proud of her. He sees what I see. You know he's not just like this I don't know clueless advisor or anything. He he's. He has affection for her in a way that's not creepy like a chore. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:It's like oh, I love bernstein salmi and danny and I wish that he was in the show longer, but I I don't want to go down that. Once I start talking about that, I won't stop.
Speaker 1:No, what also comes out on this scene is that she has a calm confidence. She accepts the gold and then dismisses the envoy without hesitation, like no, that's mine, you gave it to me, it's a gift and I'm going to use it for the greater good. And it makes her feel like her dominance feels effortless, yeah, earned. How she doesn't accept the gifts unless you know all 200 000 slaves are freed. It's a bold demand and it's like a line in the sand, but she's not willing, no longer willing to play politics with slavers like she has no patience with them, and she's making it clear like reform or face my wrath I love that.
Speaker 2:She's, as you said, so calm and I think I said this before but she's so like, soft-spoken, while being that assertive, you know. So I think that that's kind of what maybe the yung kai people are, maybe I don't know. It's always felt like they were a bit more like they were just very direct and tough. You know, they weren't soft-spoken, they were soft-spoken, they were manipulative in the way that that guy was from Qarth I forgot his name Zaro Zandoxos, you know like he was soft-spoken but manipulative. But Dani is like she's not playing games and she's soft and she's like presenting herself as like, also so womanly. So that's why I think maybe they're not accepting it, because you know they're not, you know they're like no one westeros or essos is like that progressive, I guess.
Speaker 1:But um, and and also when we think about her, like if she were to accept the offer, like the story wasn't ready for her to go to westeros. Those dragons are not ready. She's not ready. 8000 Unsullied soldiers is not enough to reconquer or conquer Westeros and have people bend to your will because they're going to see okay, you have three dragons, well, we could just kill them. A few of us soldiers will die, but we'll figure out a way to trap them And're not large enough. So I think it wasn't ready for her. Unfortunately, we'll have another close to three, yeah, three seasons of her inessos, but at this point it would have been silly for her to go to westeros yeah, I agree.
Speaker 2:I mean, even though I said in the beginning that night sight, maybe it wouldn't have been a bad choice if she took it. I mean, obviously it's not the right time, but it's just that, knowing what we know about the slavers, actually I'm going to make this point, I'm going to retract what I said because knowing, I was going to say knowing what we know about the slavers uh, bay, like journey, it's true that you can argue that it didn't really do much because they just ended up being enslaved again. I actually like came to realize quickly that like, okay, she just didn't do much but at the same time, she saved so many people in the time that she had influence there. You know what I mean.
Speaker 2:It's true that they went back to their ways, but she had an impact and she saved some lives. She changed people's lives while she was there. So that's worth something. So I'm going to say that my girl was always right. So that's worth something. So I'm going to say that my girl was always right.
Speaker 1:And who knows, maybe the influence of her leaving and the idea of freedom stuck. We don't know, because the story stopped, so we don't really know what happened in Essos. That's true.
Speaker 2:They were a bit early on in their journey and couldn't really see the way forward. And there is another character that kind of has a similar uncertain future or uncertain journey in this episode that kind of gets a tiny bit clarified, and that's someone all the way in the north of Westeros and that's Bran. So in this episode we see Bran and Jojen and their camp with Meera and Osha and Hodor, still in the north. That's when they kind of discover, I guess, or when osha discovers, that mira and georgian intend to take bran beyond the wall. Um, I think that this is the first time it's kind of really really made clear to ocean.
Speaker 2:I think brand too I'm not sure if he knew before, um, that they were going beyond the wall and I don't think that they even know why yet. So, like three-eyed raven, that whole thing, I don't think that they know it. So like, at least he has an end destination in mind now, but he still has no idea why, like why he's going where he's going. And it's a kind of tough scene because you see, osha kind of gets really passionate and she gives the backstory of seeing her husband killed and then turned into a white.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's not that much. I think this is the first time in a few episodes that we actually get some substance. With Bran it was kind of the story repeating oh, they're up in the North, they're bickering, they're not really going forward with the story. At least this time they're like okay, we have a plan now we're going beyond the wall. I go okay, because I was kind of it was losing steam a bit for me, definitely. Since we're getting these short scenes and they're like well, you could have cut that.
Speaker 2:Someone else that's kind of struggling with their plan up in the north is John, so obviously that their climb, his climb with the Wildings, was successful there south of the wall. But they're a week away from Castle Black so it's still like the attack is still in the works. It's not like they immediately dropped into Castle Black and an attack started. No, they're still a while away and it shows how massive the wall is. You know that they started in that position.
Speaker 2:They didn't start anywhere where the Night's Watch members are and we see kind of Aurel, the guy that tried to like chop the rope or cut the rope and kill Jon and Ygritte. We see both Jon and Y egret individually have discussions with him and they're kind of like intimidating conversations. I think for both um with john it was not really a very welcoming or pleasant one. And um, john's like I saw you, you know you tried to, you tried to kill me and then or I was like, yeah, I tried to kill her too, but she's not upset about you, don't see her crying about. It's just like the way things are like this is how it shows you the wild thing.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's the wilding mentality of being like we, we need to cut out the extra weight, like you're just gonna be it, sorry, you know, um. And then when he has talk with the egret, when oral talks egret, he kind of says that he's jealous of him and he goes which I completely forgot about, um and he kind of does try to make the point to you where it's like oh, you know, he's not one of us and stuff like that. But uh, what I like is that he goes, kind of it doesn't sway her in any way, because even though you can kind of see maybe something behind, like in her eyes, like maybe you go and see her talk to john and they have share a very romantic moment after that and they seem really happy, at least for a little bit. Uh, it's a cute moment when, when she sees a windbill and she's like, is that a palace?
Speaker 1:yeah, it is funny because she's like, she thought that was like a castle, or yeah, like yeah it's funny yeah, and it's cute and it's cute, but it turns serious really quick.
Speaker 2:You know um like it turns, I guess let me.
Speaker 1:Let me add this audio of john here, because I think it's one of his best scenes of the series.
Speaker 2:Ingrid.
Speaker 1:You won't win. I know your people are brave. No one denies that. No, you know nothing.
Speaker 2:Six times in the last thousand years. A king beyond the walls attacked the kingdoms Six times. They failed. How do you know that?
Speaker 2:Every boy in the north knows it, we grow up learning it. You don't have the discipline, you don't have the training. Your army is no army. You don't know how to fight together. You don't know that, I do, I know it. If you attack the wall, you'll die. All of you, all of us.
Speaker 2:It starts it out as romantic but, as you can hear from that audio, it's got real, real fast. Um, I think that's what you can hear. It's obviously um, if you just like rewind a little bit, you can hear that when he's saying that they won't win, you can. You can hear, like, the fear and concern in his voice because he's saying this with care and I would still consider this as someone's romantic moments, because someone that doesn't care and doesn't love wouldn't have said it that way.
Speaker 2:You can tell that this is someone who, whose feelings completely changed about the wild things, um, after you know, like meshing with them and everything, like he he's, he's scared for them, he doesn't want them to lose, genuinely, so that's why he's telling them that, um, and it's just, it's a, it's a dilemma that he has because, you know, yigrit kind of doesn't like listen to him and says you know, know, like all of us, not all of you, like you're a part of us.
Speaker 2:You have to just believe in this mission and like this blind loyalty kind of to man, and he can't stand for that. But at the same time, like he's, he's so heartbroken that this is the their reality and he knows that they're going to lose no matter what. But it does end in like a cute way because she tells him you're mine as I am yours. If we die, we'll die, but first we'll live and this is them living. The only you can argue that the only time that John actually kind of lived life was when he was with Ygritte, because before that he was like forgotten at Winterfell, and then after, when he's you know Lord Commander and everything, he kind of hates his life. It's kind of really boring and he gets killed and then you know like later on and he's not happy in the later seasons because it's a mess in general. So like this is the only time we see john actually living his best life.
Speaker 1:So you know, what made it a great scene is that she he cuts her off when she's. She was about to say you know nothing, john snow yeah he usually doesn't cut her off, he usually does.
Speaker 1:He has a little funny thing she likes to say and he probably finds it cute now, but here he's just like. I don't have time for you to finish that. I need to tell you what's going on and I think it was just wonderful. And I've been waiting a long time to see a well-written scene for Jon and here it is. And the last time George wrote an episode it was Blackwater and it was just focusing on Blackwater, so we didn't have Jon Snow in the episode. And I think Ygritte's in her element in this episode that she's teasing Jon, she's poking fun at how the South and their manners and how their babies they need drummers, they need for the, they need to for the armies to to you know March. And she's like so you have your soldiers and you have what are the banner men do in the fight? And they're like well, just hold a fly, just so you just hold a flag, which I always thought when I always see those like historical movies. You have the guys carrying the flags.
Speaker 1:I'm like poor guys, they're just collateral damage, they can't fight with the flag. Uh, she spots the windmill and she just it's like she saw the great pyramid. Then we have her not knowing the the meaning of swoon and fate, which is all funny, you know, just to endear us with that relationship and with her she's like the central country girl going to the big city yeah, yeah, yeah, that's a good, that's a good example.
Speaker 2:Yeah, poor thing, I can't really imagine he goes anywhere south of the wall. Actually, she'd hate it. Um, and I think that's it for john and brown. But there's one more person in the north who I don't really like talking about, and that's theon, and this is the episode. This is like a tough one for him, isn't it?
Speaker 1:yes, this is beyond breaking point. I mean, he's been tortured to the point where he doesn't even that. It's hard for him to trust any anything anymore. And then when he kind of finally gives in to the girls, ram Ramsey shows up just revealing another part of his mind games. I mean it's obviously one of the worst scenes. Luckily they didn't show it his castration and with Ramsey taunting him. I think this is what he said. He says this isn't happening to you for a reason, it's just happening. It drives home that torture isn't about punishment or justice, about his sadistic power and complete domination, or dion. And it feels bad because I I think you haven't gotten to this point yet. You read the third book, but all of this is from book five fourth, oh, okay yeah, I think it's the fifth book.
Speaker 1:This is a prime example of Game of Thrones, or a brutal example of how it portrays power. So Ramsey doesn't want to kill Theon, he wants to erase him. And in this episode we begin to see that Theon isn't being tortured, he's being like, rewritten, like after this it's not Theon anymore.
Speaker 2:That's a good. That's a better way of putting it. He's being rewritten, that's true.
Speaker 1:Just a little trivia here. In the DVD commentary, George RR Martin explains that he didn't write any of the scenes with Theon and Ramsay in this episode. The novel didn't state that Ramsay cut off Theon's generals, though it was vaguely implied that he had. And then there's another tidbit here is that Theon being emasculated in this episode is foreshadowed in the season two episode of man Without Honor, in which Theon says, quote I'm looking at spending the rest of my life being treated like a fool and a eunuch by my own people, and I think we said something about that line when we did our review of that episode, about him saying eunuch, which was a foreshadowing of what's to come. Okay, let's move on to King's Landing and Minhwa. You can uncover your ears now.
Speaker 2:Well, I'd be more than happy to, because the first scene I think we get in this episode in King's Landing is between Sansa and Margaery. Right, and I love their relationship. I love that they're like sisterly and I think we see that in this episode more than any other other. Um, just because they have like a very personal talk, you know, um Sansa's kind of, I guess, mourning her life, you know, saying that she's being a bit harsh on herself. She's saying, you know, I'm a stupid little girl with stupid dreams who never learns, and Marjorie comforts her, that's what she spends her whole time doing.
Speaker 2:Um, it's true friendship and I think that no one ever did anything like this for Sansa. You know she, this is what she always wanted in a sister, and she never got that from Arya, she never got this kind of treatment from Catelyn, so it's not like she had like a mom, that was like a sister either, you know. So it's a very nice scene to get, because I think it fills some void that Sansa like had at the end, while also helping her in her current dilemma, which I think Margaery does. You know she, she kind of tells Sansa to see the brighter side of marrying Tyrion and tries to list as many pros as she can and that does help. We see her kind of calm down.
Speaker 1:I think it's a really good way to show the two versions of womanhood in Westeros. So Sansa's innocence versus Margaery's experience. Margaery isn't just being nice. She's subtly showing Sansa how to survive by embracing the game instead of being manipulated or destroyed by it. And I think Margaery's the product of her grandmother, who has showed her how to survive. She's been trained to think several moves ahead. She uses her beauty, how she could be diplomatic and poised, and she's trying to gently teach in a subtle way.
Speaker 1:Teach Sansa, that this is how you have to survive. You have to adjust on what's happening to your life. Margaery is always playing the game and Sansa doesn't realize that even kindness in King's Landing is sometimes iffy. You put me in King's Landing. I wouldn't trust anybody. I'm so skeptical. Something else is that this episode I think it's the second time we see a reference to Marjorie, maybe not being a virgin. You know they're talking Marjorie's talking about oh, when my son is born. Or you know, I'm going to teach him the proper ways. And then, when your son will be the Lord of Casterly Rock and the leader of the North, she goes like my son, that means I have to. Yeah, sasa's like so sweet. So did your mother teach you that, or I don't know.
Speaker 2:It's just like sasa, you're so innocent I know, I know, poor thing, that's what I was saying. Like she, she needed a sister, you know, and she always kind of wanted and needed this kind of relationship and in a weird way, I don't know if she was ever going to get it in the show if not for marjorie. You know what I'm saying, because if none of this happened, if she wasn't in winterfell, then I don't really know how catherine would have been. I think she would have been like just a very stern mom that like wasn't very like sisterly and soft with her the way Marjorie is, you know.
Speaker 2:Like I think that this is, as I said, like it's something that she needed and I like what you said about it like being the different sides of womanhood, because I think that George George's world shows many different types of women in different settings and how they deal with their femininity and their womanhood. So you have, like someone like Aria, you know, you have something like brienne, and then you have these girls, um, but I think that's like it's so interesting because kind of this is how the girls within their nobility, how the noble women act like womanhood within their nobility, because it's like what they're expected to do. And then you have like the rule breaker versus the rule follower, you know, and like the acceptable women that can fall under these two categories, because, like, like Arya wouldn't be considered acceptable. A rule breaker that's acceptable is Margaery, whereas the rule follower that's acceptable is Sansa. So I think that like this is like it kind of draws the guidelines, I guess, for noble women.
Speaker 1:What I like about Margaery here is that she could have made fun of Sansa after the mother comment. But she looks at her, takes a pause, she goes yes, my sweet child, or whatever she says my mother taught me. And then they walk away.
Speaker 1:Like she's trying her best there, but okay, well, let's move on to Sansa's future husband, tyrion. And it's funny because he's having a talk with Bronn and you have it's a mirroring conversationn and you have it's. It's a a mirroring conversation between you know, Sansa was talking about I don't want to marry or not, I don't want to, but she's having trepidation and she doesn't know what to do. And then I think that Tyrion sees Sansa as a little girl. He's feeling guilty as well, cause he you know like he, she's a Stark doing this to her family, the way he treats her throughout. It's so good like sansa ending up marrying him was probably the best thing that could have happened to her in staying in king's land, because he would have protected her.
Speaker 1:But braun is just like you know, just straightforward and just do what you have to do. You know she's beautiful and what are you talking about? And then you have the the scene with shay, who I just think that she's upset she's gonna be, she's upset that she's gonna be cast aside. I feel bad to say this again because it seems like I'm beating a dead horse, but the actress who plays shay, sabelle kakil, I felt like she went back to the season one form. It just throws me off because you have maybe the best actor in the show but not so experienced actor, I'll say. And it kind of throws off the rhythm and I go, why do I have to watch this Anyway? So that's all I have to say about that. I don't want to say an unkind word, all right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I have a bit to say about tyrian scene. So first, with shay, I do think that was a weak scene from her, something I thought was like a bit funny, but like a little over the top a little bit funny. No, no, it's not that. It's that tyrian gives her a gift and it's golden chains yeah, yeah, yeah which is really funny, and like tyrian, and she also looks like.
Speaker 2:She's like you give me, you're giving me chains, uh, and and you know, because she was enslaved, and Tyrion's like oh no, I like, no, it's jewelry, um. So I thought that was funny. But actually I liked this scene with Bronn, uh, because it did show, as you said, that he sees Sansa as this little girl, and Sansa I guess, but uh, she's a young girl, so. So I liked seeing that side of Tyrion and think that I also liked seeing that we see that he kind of doesn't have agency. You know what I mean Either. You know, we think that the Lannisters are kind of untouchable and everything, but he can't do anything about it. You know, we see that he's kind of being forced into it the same way that she is. But there's actually a quote here that I really, really like.
Speaker 2:And it comes from braun and he tells tyrian, because I don't know, he said something. Tyrian said something about, uh, the north won't accept him, or something like that. Yeah, and then uh, braun tells him you waste time trying to get people to love you, you'll end up the most popular dead man in town. And I just think that that's so good. It's such a george line.
Speaker 2:All the people that kind of, uh, prioritized the people's love ended up dying. You know, like that, that was their main goal to get the people on their side. They were loved, yeah, but they died quickly because that's all that they kind of prioritized versus like, okay, it holds a lot of power, the people's love, without a doubt, holds an immense amount of power, but the people that played into that more than playing into anything else, they ended up dead. You know, like the, like marjorie, the tyrells, they ended up dead, whereas the people that kind of didn't care and just kept living their lives and maneuvering politically. You know, tywin, uh, cersei, jamie, of course, cersei and jamie and tywin did all die. But I mean, I don't know, to me it just felt like it's wrong. It's wrong, true, then what what's brown said?
Speaker 1:because yeah I don't know it's one of those, uh, crucial windows into tyrian's moral compass. Like, yeah, he's a lannister, but he's not like the rest. Like marjorie said, he does. He has he been unkind to you? No, he treats you okay. Well, she tries.
Speaker 1:Tyrian doesn't want to be that kind of man who takes advantage of this young, scared and still mourning her life kind of thing. And with shay? Let me go back to shay. I think that the the way why she is getting upset is because he's like I have to do this. My family's, this is about my family, my family's making me like they're not making you do anything, right, you don't have to do it. And she goes let's go. Let's like again, we hear another thing, let's go to eso, so let's go to valantis. Or, and he goes, let's go Again.
Speaker 1:We hear another thing let's go to Essos, let's go to Volantis. And he goes. He says for what? For me to juggle, to be a laughingstock over there? That's what would happen. They see a little man, they're going to make fun of him here. He has the shield of the Lannister name and he still has some power. So, and he still has some power, so I just thought that was a funny line. I'm going to juggle Now. I really want to talk about one of my favorite scenes so far of the season, and that is with Tywin and Joffrey when he visits the throne room. It's such a powerful visual and a statement about authority and control from Taiwan. His long and deliberate walk across the hall is setting the stage and, more importantly, the framing of Taiwan at the base of the throne steps and then towering over Joffrey, like the way the camera hats off the cinematographer.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's clear again taiwan is the one truly in charge yeah, jeffrey's trying to intimidate taiwan, which is like a very big challenge I don't think anybody could take and succeed at, except maybe someone like even though that didn't really work. But again, then again, she didn't really like try to intimidate him, but she did, ended up making him feel uncomfortable. But anyways, back to the scene. Um, yeah, so he tried to like out macho or out intimidate tywin, which of course he failed at. Uh, and it falls flat because joffrey is joffrey and since tywin is tywin, the roles are immediately reversed, as you said. Um, and joffrey's like complaining about, like where they they switch the small council meetings, because that was something that they mentioned earlier that tywin moved it from the like small council chamber to like the tower of the hands was closer to him and joffrey was kind of whiny about it.
Speaker 1:Um, and then no, he was kind of whining. He goes. Now I have to walk up all those stairs you don't want to attend the meeting and at that moment he responds by not saying anything at first. He walks up the steps to get taller and it's just kind of another power play he goes. Well, I can arrange to have you carried.
Speaker 2:I love that. I love that. That's classic Taiwan, it's the perfect line, it's so funny, it landed so well. And because even Joffrey like gets so embarrassed by it and like, oh, I just I said something really stupid and I really embarrassed myself because he like kind of moves around his chair before moving on to the next point he changes his subject, he goes okay, well, uh, tell me about the tiger girl like yeah like I don't think at that point joffrey even realizes that as king he can like demand it to be back in the small council like chamber, like where it's supposed to be.
Speaker 2:He's just, he's like okay, okay, fine, you know. And it's like what's about? What's about danny, again, what's what? That's how you really said um. But I think it's really interesting that he, joffrey, like at this point, when they talk about daenerys, he kind of it consists that she's a threat and taiwan kind of dismisses it. Um, so it's a rare moment where joffrey's right about something and taiwan isn't um, and I just think that's also fascinating to see, because if joffrey, if they follow joffrey's like uh, command, I guess, and they let him make a decision, then and there then danny probably would just like her story would have ended much sooner.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we often dismiss him for his foolishness and recklessness, but he's one of the first to recognize that Daenerys is a genuine threat and her dragons Like. Well, what are these dragons that made the world heal back then? They might not grow, you might be right, but what if they become larger? Instead of taking them out as babies or little kids, we can't wait until four more seasons, grandfather? Yeah, exactly, it's a tragic irony. I think also, he may be asking the right questions, but he's already been sidelined by Taiwan.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, that's true.
Speaker 1:Taiwan doesn't see him as a ruler, only a liability.
Speaker 2:Yes, exactly, and you mentioned something earlier too about like it shows that Taiwan is like the real person in charge. You said something along those lines and there's something actually that is snuck in. I don't know if it's me not understanding it correctly, but to me it felt like there was a bit of shade here and so much that it's a bit of a long quote, but I wrote it down. So when Joffrey asks what makes Dany different than all the other Targaryen conquerors, tywin says because we have been told as such that they're harmless by the many experts who serve the realm, such that they're harmless by the many experts who serve the realm by counseling the king on matters about which he knows nothing.
Speaker 2:So in a weird way I was like he says serve the realm by counseling the king, and yet the king, the actual king joffrey, has not been counseled. So it's kind of like he's weirdly referring to himself. You know what I mean. So they're counseling the king, aka me but then when he says on matters about which he knows nothing, it means Joffrey. Yeah, I don't know. That's kind of the way that I took it, though it was referring to two different people.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because Joffrey responds. Well, I haven't been counseled.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so he's not the king, and exactly so. I thought it was very clever If that's me reading between the lines and getting it correctly, so I like that. And something that I found fascinating actually was that this is like the first proper scene we get between Joffrey and Tywin.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I don't think they really had a scene. I think they had a scene in the finale of season two when he's presenting Tywin with this award or ribbon, for saving the city.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so we got some great scenes from our characters in King's Landing, this episode and we got like a mini scene close to King's Landing On a boat passing by the keep. But on their way to Dragonstone is Melisandre and Gendry. We saw her recently take Gendry from the Blood Without Banners because she needs, like royal blood to do whatever she needs to do. Right, soendry is with her and that votes on making their way back to stannis. Like melisandre looks at the wreckage of blackwater bay and the battle and she's like I should have been here, should have been this battle, because she thinks that she would have won the city for stannis. And gendry is kind of upset. He's like I'm here where I'm, where I started. You know king's landing, this is my back, my being is like I. I ran away and now I'm here.
Speaker 2:But then they had a conversation about Gendry's backstory, where he's from his origins. Melisandre was like do you wonder why you're so strong? Then she points at the right key pen. She was like that's where your father's from, that's whose son you are, that's why you're so strong. You're the son of King Robert Baratheon. So Gendry finds out who his father is for the first time. So it's an important scene because he kind of like pushed that idea away.
Speaker 2:We see it in this episode and this conversation as well. He like doesn't like think about this all the time. He's like I don't have a father, whatever, whatever. But it changes something in him like slightly. You know, I think that's it. I kind of forgot how Gendry is after this move on to the riverlands, because there's someone very upset over gendry leaving her and that's aria. Um, she's still angry at the brotherhood and causing traitors for giving him up. And she's even more upset at them when they kind of want to take a detour because they're on their way to riverrun right to reunite aria with her family, but then they discover that there's a lannister party, um nearby and they kind of want to raid that and and and shed some lannister blood or like shed some lion blood I think that's what they said and she gets really upset and she storms out and like kind of escapes, but then unfortunately she gets kidnapped by the hound, so not in a good situation for her to be in.
Speaker 1:I think Arya has her coldest, awesomest line in the season. They ask her who her god is.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:And she says death. I think we're going to move on to Rob and I think this scene is vital because it kind of highlights or underscores, however you say it, the tragedy of Rob's character. He's trying to live honorably and lovingly in a world that punishes both. He broke the marriage pact, as we know at House Frey, and I think that this scene is romantic in a way. We kind of see a lot of flesh here in this scene from both, but it's kind of a funny thing. He says says I can't concentrate where you're just laying there, like he should have said just cover up. Uh, it's. It's like we're watching a king retreat into a love story and but the world, the world around him, is collapsing. Like his heart is in the right place, but in Westeros that's the most dangerous place for it to be.
Speaker 2:That's true, yeah.
Speaker 1:My heart is starting to break because I know we're getting closer and closer to episode 9. And seeing that now how he reacted to finding out that he's going to become a father, and now you're more emotionally attached to rob and you want to make sure, as a first-time viewer, you want to make sure that everything's okay, everything goes well and it's just man, this is going to be rough. And then we kind of get a little moment of talisa writing a letter to her mother and valentis, and she's writing in valerian, rob, does the cliche say hello to your mother? Yeah, but what I was gonna ask you is that is she really corresponding with her family? Is it innocent, or is it a plant for something, which I don't know? If it is, because why was she end up dead?
Speaker 1:exactly like if she would have disappeared all of a sudden and she didn't die, then maybe I I thought that was funny that somebody thought of that like who is she writing?
Speaker 2:yeah, I saw actually someone say that, um, like she could be a spy, like a lannister spy, that that's like kind of helped the red wedding like set in motion. I don't, I don't, it doesn't make total sense to me because, like why you know what I mean I don't know like was she a spy this whole time? And then like could she have been working for someone else? Like I think it's, it's an okay theory, but I think it might just be a show theory. Obviously, because in the book she's she's a noble woman. He doesn't just marry some, some woman from from essos that like no one approves of. He like obviously everyone's surprised by his marriage, but she's someone that's like known from, from a reputable house and stuff. So for that reason and george writing this episode, I wouldn't really give much to this theory, just because george wrote both in in the novels.
Speaker 1:His wife is jane westerling and she's she's not pregnant at anmy's wedding and I forgot. There is a scene prior to this about the upcoming wedding and how there's a delay. I guess there's a storm and Waldo Frey's going to take this as a slight and Edmure's like he can wait. He's so entitled. He comes out very cocky. In this episode Catelyn says, well, she wasn't expecting Edmure, she was expecting a king. He was expecting a king to marry his daughter, not you expecting a king.
Speaker 2:He was expecting a king to marry his daughter, not you, okay. So we talked about everyone in Westeros so far, except for the storyline that this episode is named after, the most important part of this episode, a very memorable scene. But before we get to that, let's just talk about the storyline in general. And that's Jaime and Brienne in Harrenhal. So Jaime's officially leaving. That's the audio that we hear at the beginning of this episode, and it's kind of a heartbreaking moment because Brianne kind of tells him like do you know what they'll do to me? And then he's like, yeah, you're going to be here, you're going to stay here. And then she's like with Locke and everything that like all the fear can kind of just be understood in those two, two words. You know, because we know that's what. We know what doc wants to do to her. We we don't trust brian with that person, with any, with anyone from that camp. So we immediately feel so concerned for her. Jamie as well. We see that noble side of brian coming through and overpowering everything else and just telling jamie you know, like, consider the debt, the debts paid, the debts of your life paid, as long as you promise me that you'll return catelyn's daughters to her. And you, you kind of trust that jamie is not just saying that, you know and brian as well, because he's very sincere in his thanks for her because she did save his life, you know. So it's like a very authentic moment.
Speaker 2:I don't know that to get another one of that moments from those two characters. And that's just before he leaves and then we actually see him leave. So he leaves for a little bit with Qyburn. Basically Qyburn is accompanying him because he's there to treat Jaime's hand or like cut off arm up until they get to King's Landing and he also kind of wants to be restored as a maester again. Of course we know from previous episodes and this episode that he wasn't because he was experimenting on people. So he was kind of like kicked out of being a maester. So he's a shady guy, um, and jamie like feels kind of disgusted at skyburn, yeah, which is an interesting reaction from him. Because again I feel like this jam Jamie that we see in this episode and with the Brienne Sterling, it's like the, the inner Jamie, the good Jamie, you know, like the, his core and the, the season one, jamie wouldn't have cared and would have just brushed it off or something that's like the.
Speaker 1:The ethical side of Jamie's is is at the forefrontton, is still there and he says, oh, I have to go to a wedding.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah.
Speaker 1:And Jaime says well, I'm sorry I can't attend Lord Enmure's wedding, but tell them the Lannisters send their regards.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that's the line.
Speaker 2:I didn't catch it. I know I did not catch it, you gave me kind of chills.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the audio that we started the episode with is really devastating, because Brienne is so noble and so honorable that she's accepting her fate. She knows she's dying, but she just wants to hear him say that she'll, he'll do this. She says goodbye, sir jamie, and he does not respond and it kind of felt weird, but I think he's ashamed. Saying goodbye would mean confronting the failure to protect her and he can't face that. So he leaves without saying a word, possibly maybe trying to like emotionally detach himself from her, like I don't want to have to do so. He's being, um, like ruse bolton's man is escorting him back to king's landing that's the word I was trying to think. And then, um, he hears that he asked kyburn, when you were sending ravens, did you send any to Brienne's father or to Tarth? And he goes yeah, I sent many and we got a response from her dad. I forgot her dad's name, lord, whatever, tarth.
Speaker 2:Selwyn Tarth.
Speaker 1:Selwyn, yeah, selwyn, tarth, selwyn, yeah. So he, selwyn, selwyn, tarth, sorry. He responds and saying I'm going to give you 300 pieces of gold or whatever. And Jaime says, oh, that's a great deal. And he goes well, they didn't accept it Because Locke wants all the sapphires in the island.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like his unintentional white lie. He told to save brienne and now that is coming back to bite him and now it's going to get her killed. So he demands to go back. So what's? What happens is that he brought or he gives the guy ultimatum, say you can either escort me to king's landing and I'll tell them, my father, that you cut my hand off, or I'll say that you saved me, and then they go back. And then we get to the scene of when she's fighting an actual bear again.
Speaker 2:This is the new jb. The old jb would have never like rewrapped to this entire entourage and be like I'm gonna, we're gonna, go save my friend. Um, he wouldn't have cared as well. Um, yeah, so I, I really like that he did that. It was the noble good jamie coming through, um. But yeah, back to the bear. Kind of insane, uh, like a big spectacle for game of thrones, very weird like imagery that I think he probably wouldn't have guessed george would include in his world. You know, you would think it's just gonna be be like a sword fight, but no, it's something really scary. Funnily enough, it's like that's a modern debate of like who would you trust a woman with a bear or a man?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know, it feels like we feel that Brienne is at least it feels like it's very dangerous. But Brienne is likely in safer hands with the bear than she is with Locke. So just to bring that back around but yeah, the bear in the maiden fair is also a song in Westeros and they're kind of singing it to her as she's like fighting this bear and like to mock her.
Speaker 1:Fighting an actual live bear. It's not CGI and it's called Bart the Bear. And this is the only time I think they actually did a scene in the United States. They flew Nikolai and Gwendolyn Christie to Los Angeles to film this. They just filmed like they recreated, like the pit, but there's shots of everybody you know cheering and whatever. That's back in the full set in northern ireland. Uh, so I think what grinlin said, that she did all her own stunts in the pit. Well, the only time there was a stunt woman is when the bear like slashes her face or hits her face. So it's just a different person. But I think that was pretty cool and it's different. In the book, if you remember, she does fight the bear, but jamie is not there Jumping into that pit.
Speaker 1:This is the first time since we've met Jamie that he acts purely out of selfless honor. There's nothing to gain here, there's no political advantage, no command from his family. His motivation is simple he's going to refuse to let someone he respects die a humiliating death when he has the power to stop it. And this is when the arc is almost complete of him from that first episode pushing Bran out of the window. So Jaime jumping into the pit wasn't just a rescue. Remember how we talked about he's becoming a new man. This is like his rebirth. Now he's no longer the Kingslayer In Saving Brienne. He begins his journey into being a true knight. In my opinion, even if the world will never call him that, we see him now as a true knight and somebody we want to root for in the future. All right, so scene of the episode for you.
Speaker 2:Honestly, the scene of the episode. For me it might be Jamie Brand and the bear, but I think it has to be Joffrey and Tywin too.
Speaker 1:Yes, I want to concur and say that is my favorite scene. The other ones were good, but it's just. Charles Dance and Jack Gleeson do a wonderful job. Alright, let's rate Season 3, episode seven the Bear and the Maiden Fair. Manoah, what do you have out of 10? I think this one is like an 8.6 or 8.7. I think on IMDb.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Pretty high actually.
Speaker 2:I think I'd give it an 8.5.
Speaker 1:That scene with Tywin and Joffrey alone is worth a lot of points, so I'm going to do the same boring 8.5. I'm saving my high scores for the next three and with that, that is a wrap on our deep dive into the Game of Thrones, season 3, episode 7, the bear, the maiden fair. Thanks so much for listening. If you enjoyed the discussion, don't forget to follow, rate and share the podcast. It really helps out and we want to hear from you. Let us know your favorite moments or theories by reaching out to us on social media. Slash instagram, because we only have instagram now, dancing with underscore dragons. For our next podcast, we'll be tackling season 3, episode 8 of game of thrones, second Sons, where we'll be heading back to Dragonstone checking in with Arya and getting a front row seat to a very unexpected wedding night. You won't want to miss it. See you next time and peace out.
